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What you want to see in next S


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I very honestly see Leica raising the price for a 60+ MP camera...

 

 

I would't be surprised if it stayed the same. They raised the price of the 007 at a very peculiar time, given less and less people will be buying it.

 

I think they did this to establish the price of the new 008. My opinion is it will be the same or a bit more.

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I would't be surprised if it stayed the same. They raised the price of the 007 at a very peculiar time, given less and less people will be buying it.

 

I think they did this to establish the price of the new 008. My opinion is it will be the same or a bit more.

 

That may have worked pre-X1D, when the only competition was the Pentax, which doesn't have many modern lenses. It won't work now. We have an established medium format film/digital company (Hasselblad) and a well respected medium format film company (Fujifilm) as entrants in the market. This is real disruption in the mini MF market. One which Leica has mostly to itself for a long while.

 

It's also one Leica could have capitalised on for some time but didn't.

 

I don't expect Leica to be the same price (they never are) but they'll have to do better than double the X1D price or they'll be dead in the water. There are no direct competitors to the M and the A9 didn't exist when the SL was released (and when it did the SL price dropped). The S008 lands right in the middle of new and renewed competition in a shrinking market with two (three if Pentax make some lenses) excellent alternatives.

 

This time the only sensible reason to keep the current pricing will be to limit demand due to supply constraints or if they choose to stick with the OVF. I have a feeling that the mirrorless S008 will be cheaper than the S007 and the S007 will stay as the OVF option for S shooters. I know what I'd do but I'm not Leica.

 

Gordon

Edited by FlashGordonPhotography
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For my purpose I am pretty happy with what the S007 does. My main "problem" with the S is that I would like to bring it to all kind of places (mountains etc.) and it gets kind of heavy as soon as I bring more than 1 lens. Thats why I sometimes believe for those things the x1d style camera would suit me better.

But a smaller mirrorless body alone wouldnt help much, because it is still kind of big/heavy lenses.

So my wish goes for some smaller slower lenses, for example a 45/4.0 and a 80/4.0 combo + a smaller mirrorless body (additional to the DSLR style body). Overall I love the OVF of the S007 and hope Leica will not go JUST mirrorless, but would offer both options in the future.

 

Maybe the 30-90 zoom would be the solution for me.

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For my purpose I am pretty happy with what the S007 does. My main "problem" with the S is that I would like to bring it to all kind of places (mountains etc.) and it gets kind of heavy as soon as I bring more than 1 lens. Thats why I sometimes believe for those things the x1d style camera would suit me better.

But a smaller mirrorless body alone wouldnt help much, because it is still kind of big/heavy lenses.

So my wish goes for some smaller slower lenses, for example a 45/4.0 and a 80/4.0 combo + a smaller mirrorless body (additional to the DSLR style body). Overall I love the OVF of the S007 and hope Leica will not go JUST mirrorless, but would offer both options in the future.

 

Maybe the 30-90 zoom would be the solution for me.

 

 

The size of the 70mm is quite manageable for me. If mirrorless isn't happening, I'd love a similarly sized Summicron-S 50mm designed without a central shutter. It'd make a great pair with the 100mm (which is just a tad bulkier than the 70).

Edited by alan.y
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The size of the 70mm is quite manageable for me. If mirrorless isn't happening, I'd love a similarly sized Summicron-S 50mm designed without a central shutter. It'd make a great pair with the 100mm (which is just a tad bulkier than the 70).

 

I agree 70 and 100 are "ok".

When the 45 came out I hoped it would be smaller than the 35mm, but in the end it was bigger and heavier.

I second your wish for something compaact in the 40-50 mm range.

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Mirror slap is indeed one of major issue for big camera, of course size and weight. Because of handhold ability, high ISO performance become more important compare other MF system as we need shutter speed to compensate mirror slap.

 

If make it small, light EVF based camera means cheaper, lighter, more shooting envelop, bring more new customers who appreciate latest mirrorless system, why not. At least it save my disaster S lenses resale value.

 

I think you'd be surprised just how minimal the mirror slap and shutter vibration actually are on the Leica S 007. And how well it performs in low light.

 

Night Shooting with the Leica S (Typ 007)
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Sorry, been some time since I checked in here. Some really good input on this thread.

 

I published an article a few weeks ago sharing some of my thoughts, wishes and hopes for the next generation S camera. I'd love it if you guys would take a minute to vote on some of the mini surveys I have sprinkled throughout the article. About 85 S users have voted so far, which isn't bad, but I'd like see the data get even more concrete with more users chiming in. And the results are public, so it's kind of cool to be able to see what others think as well. Take a look:

 

Thoughts on the Next Generation Leica S

 

Thanks!

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I think you'd be surprised just how minimal the mirror slap and shutter vibration actually are on the Leica S 007. And how well it performs in low light.

 

Night Shooting with the Leica S (Typ 007)

 

 

 

I agree with the low mirror shake from S007, but it's not just mirror slap. The mirror itself impose an element of in-accuracy to the focus as you need it to take into consideration of the tolerance of each AF module and sensor discrepancy... maybe Leica did do shimming to their sensor and pairing it with the AF module to overcome this, but I would think that is too many parameter to go wrong and my experience at using S mimics this discrepancy, accuracy could be better with no mirror... well, since it's what we want in a S008, I would want a focus on sensor as no. 2 request....

 

Alpa let user do their own shimming to pair with the digital back.... up to accuracy of 0.01mm, which initially I thought is a bit excessive, but it's day and night difference once you have shim it to the digital back....

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I agree with the low mirror shake from S007, but it's not just mirror slap. The mirror itself impose an element of in-accuracy to the focus as you need it to take into consideration of the tolerance of each AF module and sensor discrepancy... maybe Leica did do shimming to their sensor and pairing it with the AF module to overcome this, but I would think that is too many parameter to go wrong and my experience at using S mimics this discrepancy, accuracy could be better with no mirror... well, since it's what we want in a S008, I would want a focus on sensor as no. 2 request....

 

Alpa let user do their own shimming to pair with the digital back.... up to accuracy of 0.01mm, which initially I thought is a bit excessive, but it's day and night difference once you have shim it to the digital back....

 

Each S lens is calibrated in the factory and has AF and aperture-generated focus-shift data stored in a chip, unique to that lens. This information is then communicated to any S body the lens is mounted to.

 

I've been using the S System for almost 9 years now. Focus accuracy has always been spot on, even going back to the original S2. It has since gotten faster with new algorithms, but accuracy has never posed a problem for me. For tripod-mounted work, you can always AF off the sensor in live view, even zooming in to 100% to spot AF.

 

And yes, again, Leica shims all their digital sensors for each camera during production.

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Each S lens is calibrated in the factory and has AF and aperture-generated focus-shift data stored in a chip, unique to that lens. This information is then communicated to any S body the lens is mounted to.

 

I've been using the S System for almost 9 years now. Focus accuracy has always been spot on, even going back to the original S2. It has since gotten faster with new algorithms, but accuracy has never posed a problem for me. For tripod-mounted work, you can always AF off the sensor in live view, even zooming in to 100% to spot AF.

 

And yes, again, Leica shims all their digital sensors for each camera during production.

 

 

I am not saying it has focus issue, but I did suffer a few times doing some focus at max aperture (f/2.0 2.8. 2.5) and and I even use split screen manual focus and even if it said in focus, it really is slightly off the spot of where I want.... 

 

On tripod, and with f5.6~f8~f11, it's no issue at all as you can hardly go wrong.

 

But as you yourself have pointed out, for really critical focus, you use LV to achieve... hence mirrorless is really the future particularly if we all wish S008 to have high pixel count...

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Sorry, been some time since I checked in here. Some really good input on this thread.

 

I published an article a few weeks ago sharing some of my thoughts, wishes and hopes for the next generation S camera. I'd love it if you guys would take a minute to vote on some of the mini surveys I have sprinkled throughout the article. About 85 S users have voted so far, which isn't bad, but I'd like see the data get even more concrete with more users chiming in. And the results are public, so it's kind of cool to be able to see what others think as well. Take a look:

Thoughts on the Next Generation Leica S

 

Thanks!

I just configured my dream S, sadly to option to vote for a price range [emoji51]. When does it get delivered? [emoji12]

 

Cheers

Ivo

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I am not saying it has focus issue, but I did suffer a few times doing some focus at max aperture (f/2.0 2.8. 2.5) and and I even use split screen manual focus and even if it said in focus, it really is slightly off the spot of where I want.... 

 

On tripod, and with f5.6~f8~f11, it's no issue at all as you can hardly go wrong.

 

But as you yourself have pointed out, for really critical focus, you use LV to achieve... hence mirrorless is really the future particularly if we all wish S008 to have high pixel count...

 

Ah, manual focus was off using the focus screen. Sorry, I misunderstood. Yes, this is not uncommon when shooting wide-open for super critical work. The mirror isn't to blame here. Rather, it is the focus screen seating. You could try to re-seat your focus screen and see if that helps, but honestly, the AF is much more accurate and repeatable than even the best MF. Leica even tested this in-house before the launch of the S2.

 

Or, if you must use MF, then, I agree, LV focus off the sensor is 100% accurate.

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I found that handheld the primary cause of MF errors was slight fore or back movement between focus and shutter release.

This on the S2-P S006 ... and it was not often enough to be a major issue.

 

Bob

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That, good man, is exactly my point. I would rather make a decision based on what is available now and what I know now about reliability and service. Which is why the S has somewhat fallen off my radar.

 

Hasselblad - 50 or 100MP options now - quite probably 100 and 150MP options in the future to upgrade to. X1D has a far more certain long term future, it is I think the camera of the future. 100MP now will set up for a LONG time.

Fuji - 50MP now - possibly 100MP 2018/19 - A good bankable future because of the attention and success it is receiving. MF Rangefinder coming next year.

Phase One - 50, 80 100MP options now - 100 and 150MP in the future - no view of mirrorless future yet but best software at the moment.

Leica S - 37MP now which is way too low - who knows what for the future, how long the wait will be, how long it will take to deliver. Historically slow development - another 10 years of the same resolution? It's future isn't certain, and it's present a bit rocky it could go the way of the R.

 

Crown that with reliability and customer care/service from my own experience

Hasselblad - top notch

Phase One - top notch

Fuji - I'm not sure of recent times but it used to be top notch decades ago when I used their mf systems.

Leica - not good

 

From this, the most bankable system at this point and IN MY OPINION is, in order:

Hasselblad H and X1D

Phase One XF

Fuji GFX

Leica S

 

But I prefer the Leica rendering most - that is very important to me and why I'm still reading this forum but I need more than what the 007 offers.

Paul,

 

You're a little behind the times.  Hasselblad will have available in March 2018 its new H6D-400c MS

MULTI-SHOT CAMERA which is at 400MP.

 

tllabron

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