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Bye-bye CL forum - back to the M10

That's where I'm heading as well. It was fun while it lasted and I found focusing with an EVF to be quite enjoyable... so I decided to pick up a Visoflex 020 along with a Noctilux .95

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Maybe there'll be a small group of those of us for whom the magic went.  However - a Nocti's a bit of a serious on-the-rebound purchase!  Have fun with that one

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I've always prided myself on being able to pass a drug related polygraph without a hint of usage; but, of course, I was never asked questions related to my "M" addiction. For whatever reason(s) it is extremely difficult for an M addict to shake the habit. Regards, Ron

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So, a mere brief affair then @chris. Going for the pretty new young thing. You'll be getting a convertible sports car next :-)

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So, a mere brief affair then @chris. Going for the pretty new young thing. You'll be getting a convertible sports car next :-)

A moment of distraction with no commitment involved

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The CL is indeed a smaller camera than any full frame M with the same lenses.

Tiny bags i can bring with the CL: 

- CL w MATE ; 

- CL w CV 15/4.5 v2, ZM 35/2.8 & M 75/2.5 ;

CL w M 21/3.4 asph, ZM 35/2.8 & M 50/2.8 v2 ;

CL w M 28/2 v2, M 35/1.4 FLE & M 50/1.4 ASPH, etc. 

None of my full frame M or Sony cameras can compete with that. 
Edited by lct

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CL sounds like a cool thing..esp if you have good wide angles..or small primes and teles..

I would like to try my WATE on one..as well as a 35mm 1.4 pre..

But for that kind of $$..well...I would have to really luv it ...the body style that is..

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..... but after a month or so of playing I've come to the conclusion it's not for me.

 

It took me a few months but the T taught me that this sort of camera is not what I want to use. I have an A7II which I use purely as a tool when, that is, an M won't do the job. I liked the T in terms of design, concept and so on, but somehow it didn't gel. The T was a cheaper way of making me realise what I really want to use

. So I do know the feeling well.

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About image and sensor quality. I think the CL sensor is quite a bit superior to the present Panasonic 20 MP sensor - tonal transitions are smoother, colour separation is better, etc. - and I like the Panasonic results.  No surprise there.

 

But - according to Focus Numérique -and they back it up with careful testing- the Panasonic 20 MP sensor is at (nearly) the same level as the Sony A7R-III ! 

 

https://www.focus-numerique.com/news/panasonic-g9-de-40-a-80-millions-de-pixels-21411.html

 

So I don't think it is as far behind the M10 as some posters here suggest. I took about two months to get my M240 workflow up to a level that surpassed the M9, I think we are seeing the same teething troubles with some users in this case.

 

What I have seen of the CL is close enough to the SL and M10 as to make the difference insignificant.

I don't think that, with the present generation of sensors, we do not need to worry about image quality anymore, provided we stay within the same class.

My division is:

Large format class: The big Phase One stuff etc, Medium format class: Pentax, Leica S, etc., Small format class: Full-Frame, APS, Micro 4/3rds, some compacts. Mini-format class: most compacts, cell-phones.

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[...] according to Focus Numérique -and they back it up with careful testing- the Panasonic 20 MP sensor is at (nearly) the same level as the Sony A7R-III ! [...]

 

In High-Res mode and for static subjects only if i read French correctly

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I was near a Leica Store the other week and had a good look at a CL with a collection of it's native Leica zooms and I have to agree with Chris, the CL does get bulky very quickly with everything but maybe the 18mm pancake or some Leica or Voigtlander small M primes with the adapter..........But honestly for me I don't see the point of using non-native lenses on something like the CL, especially when you have to deal with the crop and you cannot use AF or IS which would be my reason to have such a camera to hand when the M's require some kind of a back-up in the kit.

For me the CL was sort of nice but it didn't come up with anything that my MFT GH4 camera doesn't offer, in fact it had less to offer for way more than twice the price and I'm not convinced that there's much quantitive difference between MFT and APSC these days. The GH4 was even nicer to handle and it has AF and IS with many of it's Pana' lenses, the GH5 and the GX8 series having IBIS too.

The Q too continues to be an extremely addition to my stills kit, now that's still a great and a very useful camera.

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It’s an interesting swings and roundabouts debate I agree. Having the CL and 2 zooms with the convenience of 27-200mm in two lenses, with a lovely body and simple controls is extremely handy.

 

On the other hand, Mrs T has an Olympus EM1 and an amazing 14-140 (28-280) Panasonic lens and super IBIS. A killer one camera one lens package, with very good image quality (though it has many many buttons!).

 

And then there’s the “pure” M10 plus 3 primes approach which gives you a different experience altogether.

 

Every one of these different combinations will provide excellent images in the hands of a talented photographer. It’s all about subject and composition. Then there’s the user experience, and people can choose whatever floats their boat. Buying a better camera does not make you a better photographer, but can give you renewed enthusiasm to get out there and shoot more. Gets to be a bit of a pricey habit in the world of the red dot though!

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Personally I think the CL is a perfect second camera beside the M10. The M for pure photography and the CL to take easy with you, only with the small 18mm pancake. I was on holiday last week and the CL with the pancake fits in my jacket pocket. Light, smaller and very nice leica colors. For me an ideal combi.

 

 

Verzonden vanaf mijn iPad met Tapatalk Pro

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Well - it's a long time since a love affair was so brief.  I've been interested in working with the CL, but after a month or so of playing I've come to the conclusion it's not for me

……………..

The other issue is that compared with full frame I just wasn't subjectively satisfied with the image results from APS-C. Good, but not quite good enough. 

 

 

Same here: sold (at considerable loss) but gone within 24hrs. IQ just not what I was getting from M10 and Q, albeit close.

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I'd have to agree with Jaap ....... any of the current premium 20-40mpx cameras will give you images at a quality you would have difficulty faulting ..... if paired with good quality optics. 

 

The only real difference is HOW and WHY you want to take photographs and the emphasis on the features and ergonomics that suit you personally. 

 

I have the reverse of Chris's problem ....... I was never completely satisfied with the M series, despite it's compactness and simplicity, and found the drawbacks of RF cameras exceeded the benefits  

 . When the SL appeared I tried it and never looked back. 

 

The triad of SL, CL and Q with their common features and method of use suits my style of photography and does what I need with minimal exasperations and high hit rate.... I can pick up any of the three and be confident it will produce outstanding images if the mug behind the viewfinder thinks enough about what he's pointing it at. All complement each other and excel in different ways. 

Edited by thighslapper

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In High-Res mode and for static subjects only if i read French correctly

Yes - but we are talking 40 MP images here - one of them on a Micro Four Thirds sensor, one on a full frame one. To me it shows that the IQ debate has become an insignificant one regarding real photography. Although it illustrates beautifully on 27" screens at 200%

Much as some technogeeks may dislike it, the real difference is lens rendering, and ergonomics, user interface, build quality, user acceptance/bonding.

However, those are things that do not readily lend themselves to number crunching and pretty graphs.

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I'd have to agree with Jaap ....... any of the current premium 20-40mpx cameras will give you images at a quality you would have difficulty faulting ..... if paired with good quality optics. 

 

The only real difference is HOW and WHY you want to take photographs and the emphasis on the features and ergonomics that suit you personally. 

 

I have the reverse of Chris's problem ....... I was never completely satisfied with the M series, despite it's compactness and simplicity, and found the drawbacks of RF cameras exceeded the benefits  

 . When the SL appeared I tried it and never looked back. 

 

The triad of SL, CL and Q with their common features and method of use suits my style of photography and does what I need with minimal exasperations and high hit rate.... I can pick up any of the three and be confident it will produce outstanding images if the mug behind the viewfinder thinks enough about what he's pointing it at. All complement each other and excel in different ways. 

I feel the same. I lost affinity with the M system after the technical retrogression in the M10, where progress was sacrificed to traditionalism. To me the M9, which I will never sell, and MM1 (ditto) were the last real M cameras, tradition married with technological evolution. The M240 was another step forward, however, it turned out to be an evolutionary dead end, as it was not developed further.

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Guest VVJ

I was on holiday last week and the CL with the pancake fits in my jacket pocket. Light, smaller and very nice leica colors. For me an ideal combi.

 

Same here.  I was off for 10 days, had the CL and 4 TL-lenses with me, almost exclusively used the 18mm and was very pleased with the very compact and lightweight combo.

 

About image stabilization in general, offering OIS only for the 2 SL-zooms is not sufficient, hopefully Leica realizes that.  

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Guest VVJ

but even the 23mm (especially with a hood on) feels huge compared with the M10 + 35 summicron asph.  

 

I personally almost never use the hoods.  Besides being ridiculously oversized they are IMHO pretty ugly and not really required.  Without the hood the 23mm is hardly bigger than my Elmarit-M 28mm though, so not really huge at all... 

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i'd forgotten about the hoods. Unless there's a demonstrable impact on image quality, their only function for me is to protect the front element from fingers and casual knocks. On the 18 and 60 at least, the front elements are deep within the body and so are well protected. I don't think the 18 has a hood; that for the 23, when I owned it, lived in its box, as does that for the 60.

Edited by LocalHero1953

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