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Clean CL at 3200 iso?

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I’m wondering how long it takes for that ring running thing to start. Because I just place the M10 and the Sony α7R III around the CL on the dining table and nothing is happening. I’ll wait a while longer, I guess.

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One useful feature of the CL menu that I wish was on the M240 and SL (perhaps it is already on the M10?), is repeated pressing the Menu button moves you to the next menu page. I find it much quicker than the SL.

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Well, from the thread title, perhaps better ISO 3200?

Just kidding...

 

2500 iso is not that great either. C1 will do better than LR hopefully...

 

 

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As discussed earlier in this thread, maybe we are asking too much from an APS-C sensor of this small pixel pitch.

 

Personally, grains don't bother me much as long as their is no banding.

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2500 iso is not that great either. C1 will do better than LR hopefully...

 

C1000165_lic1si_web.jpg

 

C1000165_lic1si_crop.jpg

I would have a look at your exposure if I were you. The camera tends to underexpose a bit, presumably to protect the highlights. On shots like this, without highlights, you can easily overexpose one stop or even more and get rid of the noise. Switch on the histogram in your viewfinder.

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Yes i've been spoilt by my Sony it seems. I will wait and see how C1 manages noise when it supports the CL hopefully and decide if i keep the latter afterwards. Thanks again for sharing folks.

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ISO 3200

 

 

 

I feel rather spoilt by the CL too...

Noise reduction zeroed in ACR.

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I won't bore everyone with my crappy test shots but as far as LR is concerned, i keep getting some significant grain at 3200 iso on various kinds of pics with default NR settings. Now with those same LR settings on, my Fuji X-E2 cannot do better to be honest and i'm not sure my M240 would be much superior. Not the latest references to say the least but one compares oneself to console oneself as the French say...

(CL, CV 21/4, f/4.5, 3200 iso, 20MB file)

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One useful feature of the CL menu that I wish was on the M240 and SL (perhaps it is already on the M10?), is repeated pressing the Menu button moves you to the next menu page. I find it much quicker than the SL.

The M10 has it. Also the favorites menu. It just does not show the page you are in.

 

The guys from TheCameraStore loved the M10 menu and hated the CL menu. So far for consistency. The CL menu has added the AF related menu entries, but else I cannot see much of a difference.

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I won't bore everyone with my crappy test shots but as far as LR is concerned, i keep getting some significant grain at 3200 iso on various kinds of pics with default NR settings. Now with those same LR settings on, my Fuji X-E2 cannot do better to be honest and i'm not sure my M240 would be much superior. Not the latest references to say the least but one compares oneself to console oneself as the French say...

(CL, CV 21/4, f/4.5, 3200 iso, 20MB file)

 

What LR version do you use? There have been considerable improvements in noise handling over the years.

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What LR version do you use? There have been considerable improvements in noise handling over the years.

 

The current standalone i believe. Adobe Lightroom [1014445] as i understand or fail to understand it...

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I won't bore everyone with my crappy test shots but as far as LR is concerned, i keep getting some significant grain at 3200 iso on various kinds of pics with default NR settings. Now with those same LR settings on, my Fuji X-E2 cannot do better to be honest and i'm not sure my M240 would be much superior. Not the latest references to say the least but one compares oneself to console oneself as the French say...

(CL, CV 21/4, f/4.5, 3200 iso, 20MB file)

 

 

 

Maybe I am not completely getting it, but what stops you taking a RAW 3200 ISO image, load it into LR and then apply Noise Reduction and Sharpening (+Masking) to your liking? You can then always make it the default setting for this camera (type) / ISO combination. I usually do this with each camera for some standard ISO values I happen to use.

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Maybe I am not completely getting it, but what stops you taking a RAW 3200 ISO image, load it into LR and then apply Noise Reduction and Sharpening (+Masking) to your liking? You can then always make it the default setting for this camera (type) / ISO combination. I usually do this with each camera for some standard ISO values I happen to use.

That works - after a fashion-, but as noise is usually a local problem in the shadows you will risk either reducing the noisy areas insufficiently and/or turning the brighter areas into a kind of aquarel. Furthermore noise is dependent on exposure and the amount of shadow-lifting, so there is no one-size-fits-all.

 

The best way is to use Photoshop, make a Smart Object, select the areas to be treated, layer via copy and return to ACR for noise reduction and  then adjust opacity and blending options.

Basically you can do something similar with the Adjustment Brush in LR, or use DFine

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Maybe I am not completely getting it, but what stops you taking a RAW 3200 ISO image, load it into LR and then apply Noise Reduction and Sharpening (+Masking) to your liking? You can then always make it the default setting for this camera (type) / ISO combination. I usually do this with each camera for some standard ISO values I happen to use.

 

I used to do this in my youth

but i don't like the results i got and frankly having to use those expedients while others cams i'm using don't need them at all is becoming painful to me. So i don't tweak NR and sharpness anymore on any camera. If default settings at 3200 iso are not good enough for me i decide that the cam is limited to 2500 or 1600 iso and i treat it as such. Hard to understand perhaps but it's just me...

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That works - after a fashion-, but as noise is usually a local problem in the shadows you will risk either reducing the noisy areas insufficiently and/or turning the brighter areas into a kind of aquarel. Furthermore noise is dependent on exposure and the amount of shadow-lifting, so there is no one-size-fits-all.

 

The best way is to use Photoshop, make a Smart Object, select the areas to be treated, layer via copy and return to ACR for noise reduction and  then adjust opacity and blending options.

Basically you can do something similar with the Adjustment Brush in LR, or use DFine

 

 

Thanks, Jaap. I do this occasionally where I feel it is needed (local NR). However, tweaking the "standard" and tailor it more to the respective ISO in my eyes is better than applying one standard for all files - that was what I was referring too. If not overdone, I find the results quite ok. Masking on sharpening helps, too. It sort of also depends on how many images I am processing, and what I plan to do with them.

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For those who are disappointed with the high ISO performance of the CL... There is nothing to be disappointed about aside from the laws of physics. What we are getting is what ANY good, modern 24 megapixel APS-C chip will provide, an image limited by shot noise, by the light itself. No other manufacturer is going to do better without applying noise reduction with the associated loss in detail and dynamic range. This is all the form factor allows. If you want better high ISO use a larger format camera or a lower pixel count or both. There’s no other option. Better raw processing won’t fix it. A better chip won’t fix it. Magic Sony pixie dust won’t fix it. Even the next generation of CMOS won’t fix it. The major limitation now is light itself.

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For those who are disappointed with the high ISO performance of the CL... There is nothing to be disappointed about aside from the laws of physics. What we are getting is what ANY good, modern 24 megapixel APS-C chip will provide, an image limited by shot noise, by the light itself. No other manufacturer is going to do better without applying noise reduction with the associated loss in detail and dynamic range. This is all the form factor allows. If you want better high ISO use a larger format camera or a lower pixel count or both. There’s no other option. Better raw processing won’t fix it. A better chip won’t fix it. Magic Sony pixie dust won’t fix it. Even the next generation of CMOS won’t fix it. The major limitation now is light itself.

That is why flash was created.

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