21mm for SL - Biogon 2.8/21 ZM how good?

[Steve McGarrett]

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Hi all,

 

I think I'll give up with SEM 21 after tried 2 misaligned samples, so I'm looking for alternatives for use with both M and SL.

As for Leica lenses, Summilux is pricey and doesn't seem to worth it if you don't need f/1.4 on a UWA lens - I don't. Elmarit Asph was pretty good on film (I've had one with M6s), don't know on sensor. It's not cheaper than an used SEM, however.

How good is the Zeiss Biogon 21/2.8? On paper looks very good, and at a fair price... does it work well on SL? How is corner sharpness?

Alternatives? Ultron 21/1.8, any good?

 

Thank you

S.

[Einst_Stein]

I have ZM 25mm f2.8. On M9 and SL, optically it is very close to Leica 24mm, and certainly good enough.  

Not as good mechanically. The focusing ring got loose very soon after I purchased it. Not solid at all. This is common with all ZM lenses except ZM15mm and 85mm f2, based on my experiences with other ZM lenses.

 

I tried ZM 21mm before, the optical and mechanical quality is in the same level of 25MM/f2.8 except the angle of view.      

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[Steve McGarrett]

My two ZMs are pretty good mechanically, to date at least

 

My primary concern is about rendering on digital and especially with SL: red corners, unsharpness etc.

[Mark Pope]

I can’t comment on the performance of the 21mm Biogon on the SL, but I use one on my M240 (and previously on man M9).

It’s easy to code as a 21mm Elmarit ASPH. I am very pleased with it.

Using it on the SL successfully would depend on whether the code is picked up by the lens adaptor or if you can set the lens type in the era menu.

[Irakly Shanidze]

my only complaint is that at some point the focus became unevenly stiff. optically it is an excellent lens. much like all ZM line, with a notable exception of 1.5/50, this lens image quality is very consistent across the aperture range at any focusing distance.

[tobey bilek]

Most Zeiss comes from off brand manufacturer CV in Japan.   I can mail you a 10 foot pole so you don`t get too close.  If you need a paperweight,  I have 3  CV lenses bought new 

i would be ashamed to sell.

[Einst_Stein]

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The Japan breed CV Zeiss and Lunix Leica do not get the full gene of the original, but I still see the characteristics.

 

I don't have much problem with Lunix Leica, as their price gives enough tolerance. But I am unhappy about CV Zeiss due to the developped backlash of the focus ring after used a while. It is still well usable, but feels very bad.

[Steve McGarrett]

And what if I go to 18mm instead? SEM 18?

 

Thanks

Edited December 29, 2017 by Steve McGarrett

[RoySmith]

And what if I go to 18mm instead? SEM 18?

 

Thanks

Awesome lens, but keep it level to minimize distortion.

 

 

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[Steve McGarrett]

Awesome lens, but keep it level to minimize distortion.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

 

Do you use it on SL?

[RoySmith]

I used the SEM 18mm  more on the the M9 but have used it a couple of times on the SL.

 

This one is the snowman our neighbours children built - I wan't to include their house:

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To minimize distortion the lens should be level and the subject square to the lens. In this case the house was at an angle so some distortion is apparent.

Edited December 30, 2017 by RoySmith

[RoySmith]

Do you use it on SL?

 

 

This one was just taken on Christmas Day to send to our daughter who couldn't make it back this year:

1/60 at ≈ f3.8

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[mls1483]

The optical quality of the SEM 21 ist excellent: Very sharp across the field (from f/4 onwoards), flat field, very well corrected. The mechanical quality is Leica typical very good.  But I have ineed heard from decentered copies.

 

The Voigtländer Ultron is an excellent compromise:

- Fast with f/1.8

- Very sharp in the center from f/1.8 onwoards, stopped down very sharp across the whole field from (from f/5.65 onwoards).

- Nice colors, very nice rendering

- Solid as a tank. Simply excellent quality

- Size and weight as well as viewfinder blockage are good for such a fast lens

- Affordable M lens

- Negative: Field curvature and vignetting as well as CA wide open (as too be expected for a fast lens)

 

The Biogons are an old, symmetrical design. They are well corrected thus, but they vignette a lot and show muddy corners and edges until f/4 - f/5.6. The only excellent ZM lens at present is the Distagon 35mm f/1.4, which is a new calculation (Distagon are retrofocal designs).

 

 

There is a 21mm shootout from Ron Scheffler with the Super Elmar, Summilux and the Ultron:

 

http://www.ronscheffler.com/techtalk/?page_id=130

 

 

I could imagine that the Ultron 21mm f/1.8 could be the right lens for you, but maybe you try a used copy and then decide.

[Vieri]

Hello Steve,

 

I am sorry to hear about your bad experiences with the SEM 21mm. I would suggest you not to give up on it - my copy is just great, and is a perfect lens, as good as they come. Sharp all over the frame from wide open onwards (slightly improves at f/4 and it's perfect from there on), whatever minimal distortion and CA there is are corrected automatically by the in-camera profiles, great colours and clarity. The Biogon, which I tried back in the day was OK, but not even close to the SEM optically. The Voigtlander f/1.8, which I also had for a while, is very good but a completely different beast: much larger and heavier, not so well corrected for CA and with significant distortion - but much faster, and extremely good value for money. If you decide to use a non-Leica lens, my suggestion is NOT to try and use any of the in-camera profiles, but use a Photoshop profile for the actual lens you have instead.

 

Hope this helps, best regards

 

Vieri

[Guest VVJ]

I can also only say good things about the SEM 21mm...  I am surprised it wasn't working for you.  

 

I sadly sold my copy when I purchased the SL thinking it would not take long for Leica to come up with native SL lenses...

[Steve McGarrett]

Hello Steve,

 

I am sorry to hear about your bad experiences with the SEM 21mm. I would suggest you not to give up on it - my copy is just great, and is a perfect lens, as good as they come. Sharp all over the frame from wide open onwards (slightly improves at f/4 and it's perfect from there on), whatever minimal distortion and CA there is are corrected automatically by the in-camera profiles, great colours and clarity. The Biogon, which I tried back in the day was OK, but not even close to the SEM optically. The Voigtlander f/1.8, which I also had for a while, is very good but a completely different beast: much larger and heavier, not so well corrected for CA and with significant distortion - but much faster, and extremely good value for money. If you decide to use a non-Leica lens, my suggestion is NOT to try and use any of the in-camera profiles, but use a Photoshop profile for the actual lens you have instead.

 

Thank you Vieri.

I will think about it, but actually I do feel it's not really fair to the vendor - who is not the one to blame here - to try another 21 SEM.

The first one was not awful, yet it wasn't great until f/8, and the second one was simply decentered (left side softer).

 

Have you ever tried SEM 18?

 

 

 

The Biogons are an old, symmetrical design. They are well corrected thus, but they vignette a lot and show muddy corners and edges until f/4 - f/5.6. The only excellent ZM lens at present is the Distagon 35mm f/1.4, which is a new calculation (Distagon are retrofocal designs).

 

I could imagine that the Ultron 21mm f/1.8 could be the right lens for you, but maybe you try a used copy and then decide.

 

Yes, I own the Distagon and it's truly an outstanding lens.

Looks like Ultron 21 is a smart choice, yes (according to Vieri's words too), but now I'm also thinking about the 18 SEM.

If I understand correctly the SEM 18 should work on SL on par or even better than a (good) SEM 21 should do...

Edited December 31, 2017 by Steve McGarrett