jaapv Posted December 17, 2017 Share #21 Posted December 17, 2017 Advertisement (gone after registration) Nor do I understand it, as I never had a problem obtaining a loaner... 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted December 17, 2017 Posted December 17, 2017 Hi jaapv, Take a look here Urgent help needed. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
FlashGordonPhotography Posted December 17, 2017 Share #22 Posted December 17, 2017 Nor do I understand it, as I never had a problem obtaining a loaner... Leica loaners are very much down to the location and luck. Here in Oz you have no chance unless the rep gives you his personal camera. Not once have I managed to get a loan camera and I'm a known professional to Leica Australia. Best off being self sufficient. Gordon 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Csacwp Posted December 17, 2017 Author Share #23 Posted December 17, 2017 (edited) It wasn’t a hot pixel- it was a group of stuck pixels. Far more noticeable, and not iso/heat dependent like hot pixels are. It should have never made it out of the factory... I’m mainly upset because I was told I would receive a loaner SL if I sent mine in, and then they backtracked after I sent it. I’m leaving in 36 hours for a 2 month assignment and was promised a loaner! This was over a month ago mind you. To make things worse, for a couple weeks Leica NJ had lost my SL and didn’t know where it was. It turns out they had sent it to their credit department on accident. This further delayed the repair. I like Leica and their products- don’t get me wrong. When they work, they are worth the price, and the lenses are phenomenal. I’m just peeved about how they treat their professional customers. There are plenty of SL’s around, so there is no excuse for not sending the loaner they promised (and yes, my SL is under warranty). Edited December 17, 2017 by Csacwp 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
digitalfx Posted December 17, 2017 Share #24 Posted December 17, 2017 Nor do I understand it, as I never had a problem obtaining a loaner... Well I haven’t had a need actually...but many of us don’t have dealers nearby. My dealer is over 1000 miles away. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
m0n0 Posted December 18, 2017 Share #25 Posted December 18, 2017 It wasn’t a hot pixel- it was a group of stuck pixels. Far more noticeable, and not iso/heat dependent like hot pixels are. It should have never made it out of the factory... I’m mainly upset because I was told I would receive a loaner SL if I sent mine in, and then they backtracked after I sent it. I’m leaving in 36 hours for a 2 month assignment and was promised a loaner! This was over a month ago mind you. To make things worse, for a couple weeks Leica NJ had lost my SL and didn’t know where it was. It turns out they had sent it to their credit department on accident. This further delayed the repair. I like Leica and their products- don’t get me wrong. When they work, they are worth the price, and the lenses are phenomenal. I’m just peeved about how they treat their professional customers. There are plenty of SL’s around, so there is no excuse for not sending the loaner they promised (and yes, my SL is under warranty). With the SL, in particular, they were trying to get back a little of the pro market. What happened to that ambition? This is a horror story so far as that goes. Sent from my EVA-L29 using Tapatalk Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Csacwp Posted December 19, 2017 Author Share #26 Posted December 19, 2017 (edited) I have another unfortunate development. My SL was completed and shipped back to me yesterday, but Leica didn’t heed my instructions about overnight shipping (I offered to pay for it) and shipped it UPS Ground. Now it not only won’t arrive in time, but I won’t even be here to take delivery of it. I emailed the customer service rep I had been working with and she said that she gets no notification of when the warehouse ships items, although she didn’t explain why they shipped it via the slowest service. They are now going to try and recall the package to hold it for me until I return on January 29th. If I didn’t have my money tied up in four expensive M lenses (28 lux, 50 apo, 75 lux, 90 apo), then I would sell all my gear and switch to a new brand. At this point it doesn’t matter how nicely the lenses render if I can’t rely on the camera bodies I mount them on. Edited December 19, 2017 by Csacwp 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted December 19, 2017 Share #27 Posted December 19, 2017 Advertisement (gone after registration) Well I haven’t had a need actually...but many of us don’t have dealers nearby. My dealer is over 1000 miles away. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro The loaners came from Leica CS, not a dealer. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Csacwp Posted December 19, 2017 Author Share #28 Posted December 19, 2017 Leica CS isn’t consistent about loaners in the USA. I would have planned accordingly had they not told me that I would receive one, but now it is too late. I’m leaving for the airport now with an M4 and 40 rolls of film. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Csacwp Posted December 19, 2017 Author Share #29 Posted December 19, 2017 I’ve got the best UPS driver ever. He just broke the rules and overrode Leica’s package hold request to let me take it off the truck (I caught him a few blocks away as I was leaving). My SL looks good, and they fixed my M-L adapter. My replacement 28 lux is a stunner and is like a completely different lens from the first one... you may have followed my saga on the M lenses part of the forum. I’m one happy camper. 6 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jared Posted December 20, 2017 Share #30 Posted December 20, 2017 Wow, that’s fantastically good news! So glad to hear it! When you get back, it may be time for some soul searching with regard to Leica. For us amateurs, it’s frustrating that we can’t get loaners and have to wait months for repairs. For a pro like you? It’s simply not an acceptable risk. Either you need enough budget to have a backup for yourself, or you need a new camera brand. Nikon and Canon and likely Sony and perhaps one or two more have full professional support networks. If you can’t afford to keep a second body, then I’d switch in your place. Leica just isn’t up to the required levels at this time to support a pro who’s paycheck and reputation depend on the equipment working. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Csacwp Posted December 20, 2017 Author Share #31 Posted December 20, 2017 Ironically I had an M-P 240 as a backup, but I sold it to fund the 28 lux! I’m considering a second (used) SL or having a second go at the CL. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jared Posted December 20, 2017 Share #32 Posted December 20, 2017 If you are not too soured on Leica, there's nothing wrong with just keeping a second body as a backup. For professional use, I'd lean towards a second SL rather than a CL. There's a lot to be said for having a backup camera that has the exact same controls and workflow as you are already used to. For me, that would outweigh the benefits of getting some additional flexibility out of a smaller camera. Your choice, of course, so by all means do what you think is best. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jared Posted December 20, 2017 Share #33 Posted December 20, 2017 Oh, one other interesting little fact with regard to your recent CL experience... You may already know this, but virtually all CMOS and CCD chips have the types of defects you are referring to--stuck pixels, hot pixels, cluster defects, and even column defects in the case of CCD's. The manufacturers bin the chips based on the number of defects, and the specific standards vary from one model chip to the next. Class 1 chips will be better than class 2, etc.. All classes are better than "engineering grade" chips which are used just for development work. In general, camera manufacturers will not spec in the highest class chips because they are disproportionately expensive. So the chips all have defects. What they generally do is program those defects into the camera body, and the camera then automatically interpolates values in for those bad pixels. Basically, the camera stores a bad pixel map. Looks like one of three things happened with your CL. Either Leica technicians forgot to do this step, or the bad pixel mapping didn't take, or the chip actually degraded between when they manufactured the camera and when you received it. I know that last one sounds silly, but it's actually more plausible than you might think. CMOS chips seem to be a bit more robust than CCD's in this regard, but it is definitely true that cosmic ray strikes can damage pixels, and there is nothing you can do to prevent these strikes. Well, nothing really practical. When I use CCD cameras for astronomy work, I actually need to build a new dark library every few months or perhaps once a year to account for additional pixels that have gone bad over time. I have one camera that I paid a premium for to get a class 1 chip, and it is now about ten years old and would no longer qualify as class one as it has acquired two new column defects. All that being said, my guess is the technician just messed up and didn't remember to build and program in the bad pixel map. Oh, one other thing I should point out... The LCD screens can also have bad/dead/stuck/hot pixels in them! Sometimes the actual picture itself is fine, but you'll have a bright red pixel or two (or bright green or blue) on the screen or in the viewfinder. No idea what the quality control procedures are to deal with that issue--probably a simple inspection of the finished product is supposed to catch that. If you you ever run into a similar situation it's worth checking to see where the actual problem lies. You may have done this already with the CL you briefly had. Only issues with the CMOS chip actually affect picture quality. 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlashGordonPhotography Posted December 20, 2017 Share #34 Posted December 20, 2017 I now have two SL's, exactly because I don't trust Leica's service speed. Plus a CL and TL2 just in case. They have no pro service, in Oz. They try their best but my SL was away 10 weeks even though Leica Australia asked the mothership to expedite things. Short of flying to Wetzlar and personally dumping the thing on the front counter you need to be totally self reliant. And it's not like I'm going via a dealer. I'm dealing directly with a subsidiary of Leica Camera AG, I'm the single biggest spending Leica customer in the country, I'm a registered professional with the AIPP and I know pretty much everybody who works for Leica in Oz. And I can't get a camera into the pro service que. Jaap goes on about how Leica get servicing done and is good. It isn't. Unless it has good service for every one, has a proper Pros program that operates world wide and a consistent loan service that doesn't have different stuff happening in different places then Leica's service is poor, at best. As usual, Leica's biggest problem is consistency. Gordon 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMorita Posted December 21, 2017 Share #35 Posted December 21, 2017 Canon has a pro service: http://www.cps.usa.canon.com/ Sony is starting to build up their pro service: https://alphauniverse.com/prosupport/ It sounds like Leica needs to do the same. Toshi 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted December 21, 2017 Share #36 Posted December 21, 2017 Leica's CS for registered professionals in Wetzlar, seems to work very well indeed. I had a period about three years ago when every new Leica item, Camera or lens, seemed to be either wrong on delivery or went wrong soon afterwards but quick service or repair redeemed the situation. There is an excellent contact lady at CS, Wetzlar, who always seems to get my items serviced, adjusted or repaired almost by return (regulars will know who I mean). It seems to me that New Jersey need to find someone of a similar ilk, to get their often dreadful service, up to scratch. Wilson 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmradman Posted December 21, 2017 Share #37 Posted December 21, 2017 Leica's CS for registered professionals in Wetzlar, seems to work very well indeed. I had a period about three years ago when every new Leica item, Camera or lens, seemed to be either wrong on delivery or went wrong soon afterwards but quick service or repair redeemed the situation. There is an excellent contact lady at CS, Wetzlar, who always seems to get my items serviced, adjusted or repaired almost by return (regulars will know who I mean). It seems to me that New Jersey need to find someone of a similar ilk, to get their often dreadful service, up to scratch. Wilson Brilliant if you are based in Hesse or nearby but no further than outside EU including UK, UK for now. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_tribble Posted December 21, 2017 Share #38 Posted December 21, 2017 Not my experience in th UK. I’m a Leica pro service member and have had great service from Jimmy at Leica UK and from Andrea Germany. No complaints on loans, turn round and the rest. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted December 22, 2017 Share #39 Posted December 22, 2017 Leica's CS for registered professionals in Wetzlar, seems to work very well indeed. I had a period about three years ago when every new Leica item, Camera or lens, seemed to be either wrong on delivery or went wrong soon afterwards but quick service or repair redeemed the situation. There is an excellent contact lady at CS, Wetzlar, who always seems to get my items serviced, adjusted or repaired almost by return (regulars will know who I mean). It seems to me that New Jersey need to find someone of a similar ilk, to get their often dreadful service, up to scratch. Wilson Well said, Wilson. I might add that I find that other members of the Wetzlar team are equally helpful, but Mrs F. is indeed the preferred lady to speak to. It seems to me that some members disregard that one has to be registered as a pro before one is entitled to pro service, although Wetzlar will make every attempt to help any customer out if he has a compelling reason to need pro-level service. And they do offer expedited service at a cost. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted December 22, 2017 Share #40 Posted December 22, 2017 Brilliant if you are based in Hesse or nearby but no further than outside EU including UK, UK for now. If you are a registered professional with Leica and it is a warranty repair of a new or near new item, it has been my experience that you can arrange with CS in Wetzlar, a pick up on Leica's UPS account. Leica will send you the link to print the return label and the phone number to call UPS to arrange a convenient pick up time. Secure packing, is a very good reason to retain Leica boxes, although my large trunk of their boxes go back as far the 1940's for my oldest boxes. Leica's packaging of new cameras in recent years, has been excellent and commensurate with the pricing. Not quite at Breitling level yet but close. Wilson Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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