Teetering on the Brink of Buyer's Remorse

[Luke_Miller]

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I bought my first M (Wetzlar M4) back when the Leica film bodies were considered the pinnacle of 35mm cameras.  While  I loved it - I succumbed to the siren call of the SLRs, and sold it off.  I transitioned totally to digital in 2002, so I was Leica M-less until the Leica M8.  I purchased an M8.2 and then moved to the subsequent models over time.  These cameras filled a niche in my personal shooting, but not my client work which was the realm of my Nikon DSLRs.  There I relied on autofocus to capture dynamic events.  But over time I became more proficient with focusing my rangefinder bodies and began to use them in some of my less demanding (from a focusing perspective) client work.  I think my granddaughter's wedding was a tipping point.  Since a well respected photographer was commissioned to capture the event I brought my M-240 and  50 Summicron for some casual family snaps from my seat in the front row.  When my son-in-law began to escort my granddaughter down the aisle I rose from my seat and positioned myself to capture the moment.  It may have been serendipity rather than skill, but I was able to pull continuous focus as they approached.  Not one shot in the series was soft.

 

I don't think I am at the point where i could duplicate that performance in every instance, so I will continue to use my autofocus bodies for client weddings.  However the confidence I've gained with my Ms allows me to continuously expand the situations where I am comfortable in employing them.   I would encourage anyone who is struggling with learning to use an M to not give up too quickly.  Manual focus with a rangefinder is a skill that develops with experience, and once mastered, brings a lot of enjoyment.

[bocaburger]

I've been using Leicas for close to 50 years, so for me I appreciate the fact all those years of experience and instinct transfer over.  But tbh, if not for that, and being heavily invested in M glass bought second-hand back when the prices, although higher than competitive brands, were not as stratospheric as they have become, I don't think I would buy into the M system today.  The brand has just gotten far too expensive for my hobby use, which dwindles as I age.  Nor would I likely want to go through the learning curve with rangefinder focusing, and approximating composition with framelines sized for a set distance.  I would probably pick one up in a store and put it down in five minutes.  But for me, the M is like an extension of my eye and hands after all these years.  I'm still happier shooting with it than any other system I own.

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[Guest]

I had a little trouble with the M (for me it was the M240) at first as well. I loved the build quality and that it's engineered in my home country. I loved its heritage. But I had trouble using it, and grew frustrated a bit after a few weeks. Then I booked a portrait / people photography workshop and took almost 2000 pictures with the M that day (compared to 20 with my Sony A7R2)... it transformed me, I learned how to focus and the camera was becoming a trusted tool which I could rely on. In the meantime I have switched to the M10, which I even love a bit more because of its better sensor, viewfinder and its slimmer body.

 

So, my advice is: Go out, shoot, shoot, shoot. Great times and photos await you.

 

An example from the workshop I was talking about is below.

 

Good luck!

Markus

 

Maria-16.jpg

 

 

Well Markus, in another earlier post on this forum you said that you had some hesitations and doubts as to whether the M10 would prove to be a good portraiture tool for you, with this photograph you've answered the question.......not a problem at all it would seem. Nicely done.

[fsprow]

I have been using M's since the M3 Double Stroke.  It is not a do everything camera -- if one needs rapid autofocus as for sports, the Nikons or Canons are king, even including comparisons with the SL, especially with long lenses.  Substantial time and experience is needed to accurately focus the manual lenses on the M rapidly but once this skill is acquired, I've found little if any need for autofocus. Lenses are the key and the M provides access to lenses capable of returning beautiful images.

[stevenhacker]

For me, my M10 represents the ability to shoot photography that challenges me as opposed to shooting photography that reflects the technological brilliance of my Sony A9 or Sony A7RIII. I shoot professionally and depend upon those tools to help me achieve what might otherwise be commercially unacceptable. When I am through working, I will turn to my M10 and refresh my mind and my eyes knowing that when I capture a memorable image it is due largely to my composition aided by the oh so simple and elegant Leica tool in my hands. It's not complicated. Maybe you should repurchase an 810 for the same reason and just switch back and forth to appreciate the vast differences. 

[ShotCapture]

The best advice, (already given), is to use the M10 exclusively for a while with one lens.  I think it is hard to love the M until shooting with it becomes instinctive.

When it becomes a part of your brain like a science fiction AI you find yourself seeing and taking wonderful photos. When all the decisions reside in the back of your brain instead of the front, you can enter the trance like state of you and your M  where you almost enter your photos while taking them.  Even when taking single or group photos, you also enter in the photo with your subjects and invite them to experience the photo with you.  What a wonderful difference.  Sounds a bit nuts, but it happens for me.  I hope it can happen for you. ( I gave all my pro cannon equipment to my Graphic Design Director son.  He likes it his way and takes great photos.  I like my way too).

[olgierdc]

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Edited December 19, 2017 by olgierdc

[Adam K]

As so many have already written, the Rangefinder way of working has some differences from the SLR method. In the past, with  - say - the Nikon F and the Leica M3/2/4 the difference was not so great: the viewfinder was either the mirror and screen viewing through the lens, or the separate optical system, but in both cases, focussing was by hand, either to make the screen view sharp or to align a moving patch with the rest of the image. Many SLR screens even used a 'split-image' which made the difference even smaller, while shutter speed and aperture were set in a similar way with either camera.

SLRs subsequently became more automated, rangefinders much less so. A lot is written about 'purity' or 'back to basics' with rangefinder cameras, but a lot, in use, depends on how much of the process of taking pictures you like to do yourself. (Personally, I prefer hand drills and screwdrivers to electric ones, too!).

However, if what you miss with your M10 is information in the viewfinder, try 'live view' through the Visoflex electronic viewfinder. You still focus manually, but with aperture priority automation and the 'grid', shutter speed and exposure compensation displayed, you have a very similar experience to using an SLR - or the Leica 'Q'.

When you find (or if you find) that you don't need these distractions for most of your photography, you can turn them off again, or remove the 'wart' of the top of your camera and put it in your pocket.

[wbabbott3]

John,

 

I shifted to a Leica M4 in 1973 after 20 years using only a Rollei TLR, and I used it with 3 lenses for 20 more years, lusting after an SLR until I switched to a Leica R4, a manual focus SLR, which I thought would "solve" all my "problems" and make me a "better" photographer. I stayed with the Leica R series until its extinction as a manual focus SLR with a digital back.

 

Since then I've tried all the new Leica offerings, i.e., the S and SL, and still take my full-frame Leica M 240 with me most of the time with 2 or 3 lenses because it is now familiar to my fingers, my eye, and most of all, to my mind.

 

To use it, I may have to think of focal length and attach the chosen lens, but after that I only need to choose an aperture, focus and shoot. Auto exposure and ISO take care of the rest.

 

My emphasis becomes on the image I am capturing, with almost no distractions, just what I am seeing in the viewfinder, my focusing, and a finger waiting to trip the shutter. The simplicity is stunning and leaves me image-centered and not camera-centered. The camera between me and the image I desire almost disappears in my thought processes. The process is almost brain-to-desired image, with all else removed.

 

I never need any other buttons or thinking, I only need to think of four of photography's five essentials, focal length, focus, aperture, and framing; the other two, ISO and shutter speed, are on Automatic and Leica has never let me down.

 

The joy comes from using an instrument that lets me concentrate on the image I want and almost nothing else.

 

I think you may come to enjoy your M when you surrender to its utter simplicity. It has everything a photographer needs, and nothing else to get in the way.

 

Good luck,

 

Bill

[derleicaman]

It almost seems as we could sub-title this thread "Zen and the Art of Using the Leica M"

 

I have been an M user since the tender age of 12, back in 1968 when I first "borrowed" one of my dad's M3's. It has been a torrid love affair since then. I have used the M camera both personally and professionally. I shot numerous weddings and Bar Mitzvehs and corporate events with my M6 TTL cameras. The M has documented my kids growing up and now my grandson. The M propelled me into opening up my own camera store and becoming a Leica dealer. It got me involved in the LHSA, eventually becoming the president and lately the editor of the quarterly journal Viewfinder since 2000. There is nothing like an M.

 

Of course, I have had my flings with Nikon SLR's and sold my D700 earlier this year. The D700 and the D300 were a revelation for sports and wedding work. Their TTL flash system is amazing, but they aren't M's. Once I got my M9-P, I never picked them up again, and I am not shooting professionally any more. I am loving the M10.

 

But the M isn't for everyone, I get it. This is coming from a guy who won't wear anything but a mechanical watch and has driven manual transmission cars only since 1973. Luddite! :-)

[blimey]

E46 M would have been a better choice. #bucketlist

You could honestly get a less expensive camera that can accomplish majority of what you need.

[a.noctilux]

E46 M would have been a better choice. #bucketlist

You could honestly get a less expensive camera that can accomplish majority of what you need.

 

What is E46 M ?

[rodders]

I think it's a BMW!

[earleygallery]

My first Leica was a lllf bought mostly out of curiosity. I liked it a lot and traded in the SLR for an M3. Big mistake, hated the M3 and just couldn't get along with it. The M3 was traded for an R3.

 

Years later I picked up an M2 and get along fine with it, although I still prefer the lllf.

 

It's a personal thing IMHO. If the OP doesn't like the rangefinder experience why suffer it when there's other ways to skin the cat! Move on as I said.

[paulsydaus]

Not read all replies yet but I think you should get the EVF for the M10. Use that during will ease the transition and give you what you might be looking for. Slowly wean your self off the EVF and onto OVF as you get more comfortable. If you do find OVF/RF is not your thing, I think you should buy the SL instead. But as others have said, be patient and give the RF a try because I do ultimately find it more enjoyable for some reason.

 

 

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[Peter H]

................ Yes, I kind of like slowing down and composing the shot and so on. But no info in the viewfinder other than shutter speed?.........................

 

............

 

 

Until your own style of photography requires as little information as the M10 viewfinder provides, (or as much, depending on what you're really needing from a viewfinder: information about the camera or the clearest possible view of the world outside) you won't be able to get to know it well enough to love it.

 

And until you start to understand from your own experience that your M10 is capable of being the most rapid and spontaneous camera you could ever use, you probably won't spend long enough with it to love it.

Edited December 20, 2017 by Peter H

[jlindstrom]

It’s not something we can really tell you, to make you like the M10. It all comes down to personal expectations and what you enjoy in photography or life in general.

 

If you like cars like the e46 M, then in some ways, I wouldn’t be very surprized if you end up liking the M10. After all, the e46 is a very analogue car compared to cars of modern days.

 

My personal liking of Leicas comes from being in charge of what comes out. It’s not a computer making decisions for me.

 

I also like how they’re built. I enjoy these kinds handmade (assembled) works of art.

 

Sometimes it frustrates me - I lose a shot for being slow or screw up exposure or focus. BUT, it’s me screwing it up and not the camera. That’s a big difference.

 

On the other hand, when I do nail the shot - the results are fantastic. And again, it’s ME instead of a computer. This provides great satisfaction.

 

So it ultimately boils down to ”how you’re wired” - what do you enjoy?

 

End results can be exactly the same, but process is very different. Long & hard road to success or instaneous gratification & spend the extra time & funds on something else.

 

Also there are different flavors of the M. Maybe your road needs the e46 M and a 2nd hand M9 for a lot less money?

[eleven24]

I will admit, I picked up an M240 around the time they just came out.  I always wanted a RF camera, probably because the first camera I ever held was a Kodak Insta-Telematic and even to this day I can still remember those framelines.  I was very excited to go out and learn the M9 and turn out "Leica" like images.  

 

Or so I thought.

 

I became increasingly frustrated with the blurry just-out-of-focus pictures as my lack of skill with the RF focusing had me feeling the buyers remorse, in the same way you are describing.  I wanted to love the experience, because I loved the feel of the camera in my hand.  I loved the design.  I loved the heritage of Leica.  But I didn't love the photos that came from it, and I started to wonder how so many people loved the M.

 

So the M sat for awhile, and I started to lug my 5DM2 with me.  I knew that camera inside out.  Every menu.  Every bit of technology it had to offer.  One day on the way home from work I was listening to a photography podcast (can't remember which) and the topic made me start to think about what kind of photographer am I?  There is the group who see light and composition first, and then know how to use the camera to capture it.  Then there is the group who see the camera first, and all of it's technology and know how to use that technology to take a photo.

 

I realized that digital, and the leaps-and-bounds advancement of technology turned me from the kid holding the instamatic and peering through the viewfinder at the image in my mind's eye to the one who cared about megapixels and sensor size. I also found that I wasn't as patient as I used to be.  I guess it's this day and age, but now I learn something and I feel I need to be proficient in it ASAP.  I had to dispel that myth.

 

That's when I made the decision to ONLY take the M with me.  Use it until it became second nature.  Set the ISO and shutter speed to Auto and forget about any of the menu settings.  Just look for light & composition.  My only "technical" concern was the aperture.  

 

I realize it's a mindset that I'm describing and had someone told me this when I was wondering about the merits of the M and feeling my buyers remorse I would've likely not found my answer in their reply.  What I will say is that if you just go out with your M and judge your success by the composition of the image first, everything else will fall into place.  You will find that magic of a Leica M.  

 

A good resource I'd recommend is Thorsten Overgaard's e-booklet.  I think it's still free - finding light?  Something like that.  

 

Anyway, good luck!  

 

 

 

 

[chicagophoto]

The only thing that anyone, and I mean EVERYONE who is a photographer needs, is a camera to take a picture they like. It doesn't matter if it has the latest bells and whistles or the bloated menu systems that have become ridiculous. Its only about shutter speed, aperture and focus, thats it. If you're eyes have gotten bad, then yes maybe autofocus is needed but thats it. The camera manufacturers, especially the cameras from Japan keep adding more and more features and controls that just complicate the process and confuse the operator. Not that long ago it was manual focus, manual exposure and you had to make a picture. Unfortunately with the advent of digital it has become a race to have a camera with the most features and 20 different autofocus modes, 20fps, and on and on. What ever happened to waiting for the moment to take a single frame or two. This is where Leica comes in. Basic, Period. Very few bells and whistles, straight forward, set the shutter, choose the aperture and focus. This has gotten way to complicated and sadly if you gave a camera with no auto modes, no AF, and had to throw a roll of film in it and only had 36 exposures to get the shot, I fear many photographers would be lost. Thank goodness Leica still makes cameras that adhere to the basics of photography. 

 

Rant over

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[eleven24]

 

 

The only thing that anyone, and I mean EVERYONE who is a photographer needs, is a camera to take a picture they like. It doesn't matter if it has the latest bells and whistles or the bloated menu systems that have become ridiculous. Its only about shutter speed, aperture and focus, thats it. If you're eyes have gotten bad, then yes maybe autofocus is needed but thats it. The camera manufacturers, especially the cameras from Japan keep adding more and more features and controls that just complicate the process and confuse the operator. Not that long ago it was manual focus, manual exposure and you had to make a picture. Unfortunately with the advent of digital it has become a race to have a camera with the most features and 20 different autofocus modes, 20fps, and on and on. What ever happened to waiting for the moment to take a single frame or two. This is where Leica comes in. Basic, Period. Very few bells and whistles, straight forward, set the shutter, choose the aperture and focus. This has gotten way to complicated and sadly if you gave a camera with no auto modes, no AF, and had to throw a roll of film in it and only had 36 exposures to get the shot, I fear many photographers would be lost. Thank goodness Leica still makes cameras that adhere to the basics of photography. 

 

Rant over

 

You mean photography isn't holding down the shutter button and rattling off 30 fps of anything and everything?