LocalHero1953 Posted December 6, 2017 Share #21 Posted December 6, 2017 Advertisement (gone after registration) It would be interesting to know, particularly with the new firmware on the TL2 (which I assume came after your test, Paul). At this stage, I’m sticking with the TL2. I’m having no issues with the AF, so far. But if it is slower and can’t be improved with firmware, I’d be interested to know why. No, I did not use the new firmware, and I'm also curious about what difference it has made. It will say something about how different the two cameras are internally. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted December 6, 2017 Posted December 6, 2017 Hi LocalHero1953, Take a look here Hey TL2 owners ... How many of you are going to get the CL? (Why / why not?). I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
noshtalja Posted December 6, 2017 Share #22 Posted December 6, 2017 Staying with TL2 - I maybe in a small minority but zI like the Visoflex because of the tilt. I also like the bigger screen, of the TL2 and the user interface is something I now like having got used to it with the T. Trade in and part -ex would cost a lot - for what ? I was tempted by the CL on release but once the hype had vacated me I lost intetest. 4 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom0511 Posted December 6, 2017 Share #23 Posted December 6, 2017 IMO: TL2:nicer build quality, better menue system, better grip, nicer shutter sound CL: better AF and included EVF I probably will get a CL but so far I could not say goodbeye to the TL2. SOmetimes I think I should just stick with the TL2. If Leica could just improve the AF further. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MDCT Posted December 7, 2017 Share #24 Posted December 7, 2017 Staying with the TL2 here. I like the feel of the TL2. Its very ingot like. I also really like the tilting capability of EVF. I travel quite a bit and I am always using the GPS metadata to tag my libraries. Lastly I really like USB charging. My TL2 is in a Gariz half case that I have to remove every time for battery access. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
firststream Posted December 7, 2017 Share #25 Posted December 7, 2017 I have the original T (typ 701). I use the Zeiss 21mm Biogon exclusively, and shoot deep field (f/8, /11, etc.) by the zone focus method of measuring from the depth-of-field barrel markings. Almost always with flash, tethered or fixed on-camera. Fast autofocus, accurate focussing, and high ISO requirements are unimportant to the way I shoot. I don't need a built-in EVF for that reason. There is a certain seduction in the way the T's oversize LCD screen allows me to quickly frame a shot. It's a substitute for the seeing beyond the framelines that the rangefinder's viewfinder does so well. All of the benefits of the CL work exceptionally fine for those who desire accurate focus for ultra-narrow depth-of-field photography. That seems to me to be important in the hobbyist's world only. In Street, Photojournalism, Documentary and Fine Art photography, this is of less importance. Maybe it has something to do with the way ultra-thin DoF images make easy compositions look difficult to carry out, whereas deep field images make hard compositions look easy. I know this goes against the grain of the majority of photographers here on the LUF. 7 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fastfashn Posted December 8, 2017 Share #26 Posted December 8, 2017 (edited) I like my T. That's all. I'm using it in a conjunction with an XPro1 and an iPhone 7Plus. T has the zooms, XPro has the 35 1.4. "The right tool for the right job!" - Scotty, Star Trek Edited December 8, 2017 by fastfashn 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FredericB Posted December 8, 2017 Share #27 Posted December 8, 2017 Advertisement (gone after registration) I never really liked my T. The menu system is too complicated for me. (compared to my M8, that I owned before) Perhaps the TL2 works more simple? Anyway all of a sudden my T blocked and Leica estimated € 775,- for its repair. For me, the body is not worth the cost. So I left it unrepared. So I'm left with my 23 mm summicron... I think the CL works more intuitive. Especially the small LCD-screen on the top-plate looks practical. Anyway, I will go for a simple camera. I don't need to much controls and menu's (To be honest, most off the time I only control aperture, leaving the other settings to auto) And obviously the CL's build in EVF is a great plus. Briefly worded: Being a TL-lens owner with less positive T-experience, I think I'll go for the CL. But I need to test it first. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlashGordonPhotography Posted December 8, 2017 Share #28 Posted December 8, 2017 I have both in house. Both offer some advantages and disadvantages. * I NEED to have the EVF and flash at the same time - CL * I prefer the TL2 menus. - TL2 * I like the flip viewfinder - TL2 * The CL AF is more robust than the TL2 - CL * Removing the USBC charging was a mistake. - TL2 * The CL looks and feels marginally smaller. - draw. * The dial buttons are great in use. - CL * No internal memory on the CL - TL2 * No GPS on the CL. TL2 * Limited touch screen functionality on the CL -TL2 I like both cameras in use. I wish they both shared a menu system as I loathe how every Leica has a totally different operational interface. I'd prefer a joystick to the hard to reach d-pad. Or via a simple firmware update they could make the rear screen a virtual joystick like Olympus and Hasselblad do. I really wish Leica would release an updated version of the standard and long zooms with IS. (actually a 16-55 2.8-4 IS and a 55-200 3.5-4.5). Gordon 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Roband Posted December 9, 2017 Share #29 Posted December 9, 2017 Great question! TL2 or CL? I would never change to a CL. The design aesthetic and functionality of my T are wonderful and I believe superior. I acknowledge that it is a personal choice, but it took no time to get used to the T initially and I don’t wish to go back to buttons. To me what is more important, is what you do with it. The camera that gets out of the way of a wonderful photograph and experience is the camera that is best for me. I also have a strong sense that my camera and I have a great deal yet to explore and record! Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yuhau Posted December 9, 2017 Share #30 Posted December 9, 2017 It may be off the topic bit. But , can anybody confirm for me that the EVF issues with the early TL2 has been corrected / resolved ? If it so , I shall look for a TL2 ( for a better deal ), otherwise, CL. I have been using M10 or SL for all my trips with the original T / EVF as a backup. It's high time for a T upgrade ? JIT for christmas . Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted December 9, 2017 Share #31 Posted December 9, 2017 What EVF issues with early TL2s? I got my TL2 shortly after release, and have had no issues with the EVF. The EVF on the T (the first model of this series of cameras) had a blackout that was too long, but that isn’t the case with the TL2. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ropo54 Posted December 9, 2017 Share #32 Posted December 9, 2017 What EVF issues with early TL2s? I got my TL2 shortly after release, and have had no issues with the EVF. The EVF on the T (the first model of this series of cameras) had a blackout that was too long, but that isn’t the case with the TL2. There was some kind of blackout issue. Leica did a software correction (I believe) after stopping new sales of the TL2 for a short time. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Learner Posted December 9, 2017 Author Share #33 Posted December 9, 2017 Sale of TL2 was suspended shortly after its launch on July 10, 2017. http://macfilos.com/photo/2017/7/19/leica-tl2-sales-suspended-following-visoflex-problem The problem was "cured" by a firmware update later that month. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted December 9, 2017 Share #34 Posted December 9, 2017 Oh, right. Sorry, the lock up issue. Yes, sorted. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Learner Posted December 11, 2017 Author Share #35 Posted December 11, 2017 A comparison btw CL and TL2 from "Mirrorless Comparison": https://mirrorlesscomparison.com/preview/leica-cl-vs-tl2/ Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Learner Posted December 11, 2017 Author Share #36 Posted December 11, 2017 (edited) Is it fair to say that if it were not for the CL's built-in EVF, most people in the market would opt for the TL2? Edited December 11, 2017 by Learner Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom0511 Posted December 11, 2017 Share #37 Posted December 11, 2017 I wish the TL2 AF was on the same level as the CL AF and I hope it will be improved further by firmware. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted December 11, 2017 Share #38 Posted December 11, 2017 (edited) A comparison btw CL and TL2 from "Mirrorless Comparison": https://mirrorlesscomparison.com/preview/leica-cl-vs-tl2/ This comparison reinforces in my mind the rather odd distinctions between these two cameras. While the obvious functional difference is between the CL with the built in EVF and the TL2 with the Visoflex 020, the rationale for the other differences are rather difficult to reconcile: I don't notice a problem with the TL2 AF, but if the CL actually does have a faster AF, why? Same sensor, same processor, same mount, same lenses. Internal memory - why skip this out of the CL? GPS - the CL already has an odd bump over the EVF, why not extend it to provide room for a GPS receiver. They're very small these days. Battery door - I know this is a small point, but surely the CL design could have adopted the same battery and mechanism from the TL2. Menu/UI/buttons - not including the joystick and blank buttons from the SL was a huge mistake, in my view. This is a mirrorless camera, and the SL is Leica's flagship for this mount. No ability to fix an external mike, no HDMI-D or USB-C connection, and no in camera charging. different shutter speeds, both mechanical and electronic - why? I find this incoherent and irrational. I do understand Leica making an APS-C in L mount, and giving it a X form factor, but the differences in functionality make no sense to me at all. Edited December 11, 2017 by IkarusJohn 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Learner Posted December 11, 2017 Author Share #39 Posted December 11, 2017 (edited) IkarusJohn: Have you identified the upgrade features of the CL2? 2019? Edited December 11, 2017 by Learner Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted December 11, 2017 Share #40 Posted December 11, 2017 Sorry, I don't understand - what "upgrade features"? What is the relevance of 2019? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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