Worth upgrading from m240 to m10 for noctilux 0.95?

[doublev]

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I only shoot with the noctilux 0.95.. is it worth upgrading to the m10?

I am going on a month long trip in a week.  I see the camera has better availability I can probably snag one now.

 

What is the consensus? Am I going to get better pictures?  If the camera is magnitudes faster and better that could help (sometimes the m240 has that little lag).  Is it quieter?  that helps.

The noctilux is already so big and heavy I dont know if the slimmer body really makes a difference for me.

The lack of video is sad.. but i use my hasselblad if i really want to take video (video quality on medium format is wow)

 

I would need to buy a new case and eye piece.. I am wondering if it is worth the trouble.  I am not too worried about the cost because I think I can sell my m240 for decent money still so the out of pocket won't be too terribly bad.. but is it worth the effort to learn some new buttons and such if I am happy with the m240?

 

I never use flash.. so ISO improvements are obviously important

 

thanks

 

[mhicks]

There’s always going to be something slightly better, technologically. The M10 is a little better at high iso and has a little better view finder. For most pictures you’re not going to notice a difference.

 

You have to ask yourself if the minor differences are worth a couple of thousand dollars.

 

To me, if I had a 240, I would save the money or invest it. You already have a damn good camera and lens. Ymmv...

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[rafael_macia]

I just went from an M-P 240 to an M10.

Video I do with an SL. But I miss it in the M10 ....like you will.

 

Regarding the size; At first, the M10 felt small and heavy  .... until I put on the Leica grip .... now it feels balanced and perfect.

There is not a big learning curve with the M10. The menu controls on the back have been simplified. Coming from the 240 is not difficult.

so .... 

Do you need one? or does it make sense?

I believe, (my opinion ...) you will get better pictures.

If you grab an M10, which is a bit difficult, right now, your trip might turn out into a great adventure.

 

You could do just as well with the 240,        but the M10    IS a step forward.

I would suggest getting the grip, and if you need a diopter you would need one for the larger finder.

Leica sells a step-down adapter to screw into the new finder, which will take your old 240 sized diopters, but the price tag is truely criminal. About $100 for a tiny thread spacer. Plus having the larger eyepiece is negated by using the old diopters. Get the new diopter. Ken Hansen has diopters, and step-down adapters in stock.

 

Hey,

Good luck with your trip !

Edited December 4, 2017 by rafael_macia

[dugby]

I know the following point may not bother some folks, but it factored strongly in my decision to currently stay with my M240.

 

 

I recall that the number of shots per full battery charge on the M10 is less than the M240.

 

https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/273600-m10-battery-life/?hl=battery+life

 

 

On a busy day of shooting for me, my M240 battery comfortably endures into the evening.

As a pack-light minimalist on my outings, I would not like the hassle of charging (at night) and carrying an extra battery daily.

Edited December 4, 2017 by dugby

[otto.f]

The video in the M240 would a great plus over the M10 with the Noctilux 0.95 because moving focus plane in video’s is especially nice with that lens

[jaapv]

If you have to add a grip to balance the M10, it puts an end to its main advantage (to some) of size.

However, the improved viewfinder might be of help with a shallow DOF lens like the Noctilux.

[Uwe M.]

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 in march 2017iI wrote my opinion M10+Noctilux 0.95 :

 

"It seems that the M10 is made for the Noctilux. You can move the focus with the EVF / LV to the point you want ... important for the image compostion.

This is  an advantage of the M10 versus the older Ms. With the RF alone, focusing with the M10 is similar to that of the older Ms.

With the M10 you do not have to pan after focusing." (https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/270022-m10-with-nocti-50-095/?p=3227648)

 

Without using the EVF in this combination the differences in the result of the M240 should not be too big!

(you can read from of better High-ISO-capability and color rendering)

 

[Guest]

It's a tough decision. I've had my M10 since July and although it's at Leica / Wetzlar right now for a small warranty repair I have to say that overall I am happy that I did buy into the camera......Although at the same time I am very happy that I kept one of my 240's back rather than trading the two I owned in on the M10 purchase as was my first intention.

I do have some quibbles with the M10, the main of which being that I wish the VF was more amenable to the use of wider lenses, it's focal length is too long for the wider lenses I mostly use on my M's. I'd love to have had a .58 VF option. I find the 28mm lines in the VF impossible to see corner to corner and that's really annoying, but for you with a 50mm whether a Noctilux or another "normal" lens I think you'll find that the M10's VF is an improvement over the preceding M's.

I do think that a Noctilux and other heavy / longer lenses balance better on a 240, but that's probably just me and the way I handle a M.

If you can hold onto the 240 and purchase a M10 then that's the best of both worlds. The M240/MP240 is a fine camera that has some useful features that the M10 has shed and really for most users if you already own a 240 then the step to a M10 isn't really necessary in my opinion.

[albertknappmd]

The M10 is simply a better camera... Better Viewfinder, better high iso performance, better menu, better ergonomics..

Albert     

[Guest]

The M10 is simply a better camera... Better Viewfinder, better high iso performance, better menu, better ergonomics..

Albert     

 

 

Hello Albert, apart from the fact that the viewfinder isn't an improvement for me personally seeing that my predominant useage is with lenses wider than 50 mm, I would agree with you that the M10 is "better" in a few regards, and as the latest M so it should be I guess.....But just because a new model ticks some boxes I think most of us have to make the judgement as to whether those ticked boxes justify the financial outlay as opposed to keeping with the gear we already own and are familiar with i.e. a 240.

 

Sure the M10 does indeed have improved high ISO performance, I can testify to that, but "doublev" says he only shoots with a Noctilux and presumably he shoots with that lens wide open otherwise why use that lens because that's where it's "look" comes from?...... So maybe the higher ISO could be more of a problem than an asset and perhaps not really needed most of the time?.....I don't know, that's his choice to make based on his shooting style / subjects.

 

Ergonomics? Yes I do prefer the M10's thinner body, but really it's not such a great difference, and again if one has a 240/240P is it worth the switch? That was all I was asking.

 

Again I'm happy that I have the M10, ( even happier to get it back from Wetzlar soon! ), but I am also pleased that I did keep one of my 240's because they are extremely good pieces of kit and I know I'd have regretted trading in both back in July.

[MT0227]

Setting aside the improvements the M10 has over the M240, I don't think there's much of a difference between the two when shooting a Noctilux.  I had the M240P,  and own an M10 and M6....shot all with the 50 f/1.    You may get a slight lift with the M10's OVF relative to the M240; the EVF available on the M10 is faster and more stable than the EVF2 on the M240.  I'm having a hard time telling you to upgrade to from M240 to M10 when the focus alone is the performance of shooting a Noctilux.

 

Now if you were considering going from M240 to the SL, that's a different story.  Ergonomics are better;  the SL's EVF is unmatched and with the Noctilux attached makes for a unique experience, you see the DOF change as you change it (WYSIWYG); you also get your video back if that's your thing.  The drawback is clearly the larger footprint and weight of the SL, but again not all that much in my view.  

[earleygallery]

 

 

What is the consensus? Am I going to get better pictures? 

 

Of course you'll get better pictures. You're spending more money on something new, so they've got to be better. 

[FlashGordonPhotography]

Ignoring the obvious upgrades in ISO, camera performance and IQ which are real, but incremental the simple fact is that the Noctilux is easier to focus reliably on the M10 than it is on the M240. With the RF my keeper rate is significantly higher then the M240 because of the increased magnification in the finder. In addition the EVF has higher resolution, a quarter of the black out time and the magnification can be moved off centre.

 

I still think the best platform for the Noctilux is the SL but the M10 is close to that and much better than the 240, *IF* the lens in question is the Noctilux.

 

Gordon

 

p.s. If you add the GPS and EVF to an M240 it's almost exactly the same size and weight as the SL.

[rafael_macia]

 

 

If you have to add a grip to balance the M10, it puts an end to its main advantage (to some) of size.

However, the improved viewfinder might be of help with a shallow DOF lens like the Noctilux.

Not really.

The Leica grip does not put an end to anything. 

The grip makes the M10 even better in the hand. Especially so with a front heavy lens such as the Noctilux.

 

[Simon]

I would say that since you said you’re happy with the M-240 you should keep it and wait for either a P version or an M11.

 

Some think there mightn’t be a P version this time but I still think there will. Black paint just looks too good and Leica are always happy to offer reskins of their cameras.

[Herr Barnack]

 

What is the consensus? Am I going to get better pictures?

 

 

Based on everything that I have read, yes.  Incrementally better, not night and day difference better. 

 

I am shooting with an M-P 240 and I don't lay awake at night fretting over the miniscule image quality improvements that the M10 offers over my camera; the M-P 240 produces stunning 16x24 inch full frame prints and can easily produce larger prints with nearly equal IQ. 

 

There are other reasons to acquire the M10 though, such as higher ISO performance, newer/better sensor, improved viewfinder, simplified layout & controls and the absence of the detestable movie mode, the marginally smaller physical size. 

 

If those upgrades appeal to you, I would say spring for the M10 if finances permit.  As for me, if I had to choose between travel and the M10 (and at the moment I do have to choose), I would be traveling and photographing with my M-P 240.

Edited December 9, 2017 by Herr Barnack