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Who wants Leica to make a S Monochrom?

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Jesse (djmay)   Your post #19 is quite correct.  As I mentioned in my post # 13, most certainly the electronics board and firmware would have to be matched to the upgraded sensor.  If Leica would make a Monochrom S using the S007 body, that IMO would be great.  I know Leica is working hard on the S008.  Like the original MM, a S Monochrom would be quite unique.  A good number of photographers would rather shoot in B&W.  Research has proven more people stop and view B&W vs color.  Some of my B&W MM images have sold more than my color landscape images.  Admittedly, when I did S DNG conversions, I wasn't too excited with the results.  But with the MM, those images render IMO better and my clients buying habits reflect that too.  They tell me, my B&W landscape images make them stop, look, think and feel more than color.  Quite possibly because they are different.  Anyways, I would welcome a S Monochrom first, be it in a S007 body or a follow on, albeit cost would be a factor too.  I consider the S camera body to be a mature and well thought out tool.  I don't currently have one and went to the SL only due to the weight and my remote hiking distances (and age) tell me to lighten my load.  I believe more photographers would buy the S system if the capability to simply upgrade the sensor to a level the photographer wants in MPs at a much lower cost.  No other camera manufacturer that I know, offers simple sensor upgrades (change and replace) at a reasonable low cost.  The cost should be significantly less to do upgrades to a new/upgraded sensor, electronics board and firmware than spending $18K for a new body each time a new version comes out.  Not to mention the years between new versions coming available.  The cost factor is a main reason IMO why many photographers don't buy the S system.  Certainly the S lenses are the best MF lenses available and will be that way for many years to come.  Peter Karbe designed the S lenses to resolve better than 4 microns...I suspect it is closer to 2-3 microns, but I am not an optical engineer.  Forget the S motor debacle as Leica learned a hard lesson and has resolved the issue.  Personally, I had 3 S lenses needing new motors and also broke 2 lenses in the Leica store just testing the lenses.  But this didn't stop me from owning the system.  The resulting images speak for themselves and for a MF camera and IMO, nothing renders better than S lenses after also owning the X1D and Fuji GFX.  Both those camera systems found new homes via eBay.  Plus my clients vote with their wallets and my S, SL and MM images sell quite well.  Hope this long winded answer captures what you were asking about.  r/ Mark

Edited by LeicaR10

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I wanted to know if people would pass on Monochrom with 007 sensor in the hope that a higher resolution sensor would come later. I have expressed my wishes to Leica, and I asked for input here to see what would motivate others.

 

 

I'd be quite happy to give a Monochrom S 007 a try. While I am waiting for the S 008 to upgrade my S 006, a Monochrom 007 would be so distinctive and likely improvement on the clarity of the sensor that it could be a sensational tool.

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Are we in for a surprise? The third incarnation of the M Monochrome will be released on Friday, Jan 17. A Monochrome Q2 is said to come later in 2020. Will there be an S3 Monochrome as well? 

(and since some are at it; S3 is not that far away). 

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15 minutes ago, helged said:

Are we in for a surprise? The third incarnation of the M Monochrome will be released on Friday, Jan 17. A Monochrome Q2 is said to come later in 2020. Will there be an S3 Monochrome as well? 

(and since some are at it; S3 is not that far away). 

a real surprise would be the S3 launching on friday 😋

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Stuart and Helged,  The S3 is due in March.  A S3 Monochrom who be an amazing camera indeed.  Leica has a proven S body and superb lenses that will perform for decades to come for resolution etc..  I would imagine if enough interest by S photographers is there, just tell Stephan Schulz at Leica that you need a monochrom S camera, he might push for it.  He is in charge of the Leica Professional Services that manages the S and SL product lines.  He is always interested in hearing from S users.  r/ Mark

Edited by LeicaR10

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One idea that I would find compelling would be to see if it were possible to have Monochrom conversions...I would love to be able to send in my S2, which has been gathering dust as a back up, and instead have it converted to monochrome. It would give some new life to bodies that are hard to sell these days, and generate some revenue for Leica in the process. 

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1 hour ago, Stuart Richardson said:

One idea that I would find compelling would be to see if it were possible to have Monochrom conversions...I would love to be able to send in my S2, which has been gathering dust as a back up, and instead have it converted to monochrome. It would give some new life to bodies that are hard to sell these days, and generate some revenue for Leica in the process. 

is that the older model with a CCD sensor ?

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1 hour ago, frame-it said:

is that the older model with a CCD sensor ?

Yes. The S2/S2-P and 006 have a CCD sensor. The 007/S3 have a CMOS sensor.

Edited by Sarnian

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I have used both monochrom's and the S2P and S007 (and still shoot BnW film).  From an M perspective, the monochrom gets slightly more dynamic range, but much better resolution because of no bayer filter.  When we talk about 18mp and 24mp, this can make a difference.  Since we are at 37mp and 64mp (S3), I think the resolution is immaterial at best.  So, then I think about dynamic range.  Yet, the S007 paints so incredibly well and has 15 stops of dynamic range, so I don't think that makes a large difference.

I can really see a difference in M10, SL(1) and S007 files.  The S007 is just better in terms of color and ability to manipulate the light.  So, I can make BnW conversions and use colored filters (based on the colors in the DNG).

My conclusion is that I would spend no money on a monochrom S version, because I already have one in effect - great resolution and dynamic range.  Regarding uplifting, would be hard to get someone to touch and old sensor and warrant it....  Just my thoughts.

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11 hours ago, Stuart Richardson said:

One idea that I would find compelling would be to see if it were possible to have Monochrom conversions...I would love to be able to send in my S2, which has been gathering dust as a back up, and instead have it converted to monochrome. It would give some new life to bodies that are hard to sell these days, and generate some revenue for Leica in the process. 

Many months ago I spoke with the proprietor of maxmax.com about converting corroded CCD S bodies to monochrome. He went and bought an S2 but hasn’t got around to try. It should be possible but I think itd strip the autofocus sensors too and disable autofocus.

In lieu of waiting for Leica you can try urging him.

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 I would not spend 20,000 euros plus for a new monochrome S, but I would be happier to pay a more reasonable amount to convert the older S2. Again, I was thinking as more an after sales service to give new life to existing bodies, not so much to do it from scratch. In this day and age, I think it would be nice if manufacturers gave an option to repair, refurbish and repurpose, rather than treat cameras like other typical consumables. For cameras as expensive and carefully crafted as the S series, it is unfortunate that they are treated by the market as being so short lived. The S2 still has a fantastic viewfinder, shutter, handling, etc, and of course it still takes great pictures, but it would be nice to be able to send it in to Leica and have it transformed into a newer or different tool. Anyway, it was just a thought. 

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14 minutes ago, Stuart Richardson said:

 I would not spend 20,000 euros plus for a new monochrome S, but I would be happier to pay a more reasonable amount to convert the older S2. Again, I was thinking as more an after sales service to give new life to existing bodies, not so much to do it from scratch. In this day and age, I think it would be nice if manufacturers gave an option to repair, refurbish and repurpose, rather than treat cameras like other typical consumables. For cameras as expensive and carefully crafted as the S series, it is unfortunate that they are treated by the market as being so short lived. The S2 still has a fantastic viewfinder, shutter, handling, etc, and of course it still takes great pictures, but it would be nice to be able to send it in to Leica and have it transformed into a newer or different tool. Anyway, it was just a thought. 

It could be interesting.  If my memory serves, the Maestro chip has code in it that tunes the colors, especially skin tones.  So, I would think part of any conversion to a monochrom would entail reprogramming.  I wonder what would happen with tones if the Maestro could not find any colors and tried to process the RAW data before writing the DNG?  It might not be at all what we would expect the output to be...

So I might guess that only Leica could make that change... Thoughts?

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I would imagine that it would require a firmware update to do it properly...but perhaps a program like RawTherapee could be used to demosaic the raw file without any changes. That does not open up the ISO possibilities though. So I think for it to really work well, it would need Leica's support. But reading this thread, it seems like they did something similar for Josef Koudelka? But it is not clear if they made that camera a true monochrome, or whether they just cropped the viewfinder and set up the camera as black and white only (i.e. in the jpeg engine). Honestly, the latter seems more likely to me. But maybe not?

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M10 Monochrom £7,250.00

https://store.leica-camera.com/uk/en/detail/index/sArticle/2831

Product information "M10 Monochrom, Black"

The essentials:

  • Compact digital view and rangefinder system camera with a dedicated black-and-white image sensor
  • New 40 Megapixel monochrome sensor
  • Base ISO of 160 - Improved high ISO performance
  • Exposure times: 16min. – 1/4000s
  • Touchscreen
  • Silent shutter
  • Reduced to black and grey design into the finest detail
  • M10-P based body

Product description:

 

A new dimension of black-and-white photography

With a newly developed 40-megapixel black-and-white sensor, the Leica M10 Monochrom offers unrivaled sharpness and resolution in all lighting conditions. 

Improved detail rendition for greater image quality 

The fact that no color filter arrays are required means that there are fewer layers of glass and filter to impede the transmission of light or cause deflections. This is especially advantageous in a traditional rangefinder camera and results in decreased, fine-grained image noise.

The M10 Monochrom delivers an exceptionally broad sensitivity range - from ISO 160 to ISO 100,000, while retaining full detail with the finest grain. This enormous sensitivity spectrum enables imagery with an extremely broad dynamic range - yielding results with areas of shadow and illumination clearly defined, particularly when shooting in uneven, high-contrast light. 

Understated and discreet for low-profile shooting

The M10 Monochrom lives in a body technically identical with the M10-P range. The pared-back look and almost inaudible shutter make photographing with the M10 Monochrom a most discreet experience, ideal for capturing authentic moments without drawing attention to yourself.

The strict omission of any color-inlaid engravings further emphasizes the camera’s monochrome character.

Utilising the full scope of the camera’s capability

With its high-resolution image sensor and faithful detail rendition, the Leica M10 Monochrom has significantly raised the bar in terms of camera quality and performance. This, in turn, means that only equally high-capacity lenses will be able to utilise all of the camera’s performance reserves. Leica’s M lenses — globally recognised as the world’s best full-frame lenses - are the perfect match for the Leica M10 Monochrom, giving rise to an exceptionally high-performance combination.

A reliable companion - Made in Germany

As with all Leica M cameras, the M10 Monochrom is made almost entirely by hand by experienced specialists in an elaborate construction and assembly process and is robust enough to take on even the toughest of conditions.

The Leica M10 Monochrom stands for exceptional quality and reliability that assures a companion for life.

 

Scope of delivery:

 

M10 Monochrom | Carrying strap | Battery | Charger & Cables | Quick start guide | 3 months trial Adobe Lightroom

Edited by Sarnian

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