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djmay

Who wants Leica to make a S Monochrom?

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I have read and heard that some people say they would like a S Monochrom. Assuming that the price would be similar to S 007, would you buy a S Monochrom?

 

What would you expect that you cannot already accomplish with the current S? I use the S for black and white and expect to be testing M Monochrom soon.

 

If the forum provides enough feedback, I will take that feedback to Leica.

 

Jesse

 

 

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Guest NEIL-D-WILLIAMS

Jesse

Personally I think the black and white conversions out of the S007 are better than my old MM so I would say NO The files are good enough what I can get now

 

Neil

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Using an existing sensor like the 007 would be cost effective and genius. There are tons of benefits from removing the Bayer filter and look no further than phase with their achromatic back for examples. I would love one as would any serious black and white enthusiast.

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I have had a Monochrom from when they first came out in August 2012, it was far better than the M9 conversions.  I have not tried it against M(240) conversions and the few S conversions I have done looked fine.  What I like about the original MM is using it at 5000ISO (using ND if needed) for the look it gives, the S(007) is far better at high ISO than my M(240) so cannot reproduce that look....

 

john

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I'm a B&W landscape photographer, so I appreciate having specialize tools for my work.

 

I've replaced the color inks in my Epson 9900 ink jet printer with the Piezography B&W system. Now the 9900 has 7 shades of black ink. Of course I was able to print B&W with the standard Epson color ink set, but I prefer using all black inks to make B&W prints.

 

The reasons for wanting a B&W sensor in the S are the same as they are for the wanting the MM.

 

My preference would be to exchange the sensor in my 007 for a B&W 60mp sensor. I'm not aware of other camera manufacturers offering a service to replace sensors to upgrade/modify a photographer's camera. Would Leica be breaking new ground?

 

As Arif has mentioned, replacing the sensor ( B&W or higher mp count) in previous versions of the S camera would be very desirable for many of us.

 

Would more of us be willing to invest in the S if we knew that a sensor upgrade path was available? Would the used market pricing stabilize, thereby protecting our investments? Would I pay half the price of a new S for a sensor upgrade to my current S camera? Would there be a greater incentive to purchase additional lenses knowing an upgrade path was available. 

 

What say you?

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I'm a B&W landscape photographer, so I appreciate having specialize tools for my work.

 

I've replaced the color inks in my Epson 9900 ink jet printer with the Piezography B&W system. Now the 9900 has 7 shades of black ink. Of course I was able to print B&W with the standard Epson color ink set, but I prefer using all black inks to make B&W prints.

 

The reasons for wanting a B&W sensor in the S are the same as they are for the wanting the MM.

 

My preference would be to exchange the sensor in my 007 for a B&W 60mp sensor. I'm not aware of other camera manufacturers offering a service to replace sensors to upgrade/modify a photographer's camera. Would Leica be breaking new ground?

 

As Arif has mentioned, replacing the sensor ( B&W or higher mp count) in previous versions of the S camera would be very desirable for many of us.

 

Would more of us be willing to invest in the S if we knew that a sensor upgrade path was available? Would the used market pricing stabilize, thereby protecting our investments? Would I pay half the price of a new S for a sensor upgrade to my current S camera? Would there be a greater incentive to purchase additional lenses knowing an upgrade path was available. 

 

What say you?

Interesting ideas. I will pass them along. It could be that some of these possibilities have been considered.

Jesse

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I'm a B&W landscape photographer, so I appreciate having specialize tools for my work.

 

I've replaced the color inks in my Epson 9900 ink jet printer with the Piezography B&W system. Now the 9900 has 7 shades of black ink. Of course I was able to print B&W with the standard Epson color ink set, but I prefer using all black inks to make B&W prints.

 

The reasons for wanting a B&W sensor in the S are the same as they are for the wanting the MM.

 

My preference would be to exchange the sensor in my 007 for a B&W 60mp sensor. I'm not aware of other camera manufacturers offering a service to replace sensors to upgrade/modify a photographer's camera. Would Leica be breaking new ground?

 

As Arif has mentioned, replacing the sensor ( B&W or higher mp count) in previous versions of the S camera would be very desirable for many of us.

 

Would more of us be willing to invest in the S if we knew that a sensor upgrade path was available? Would the used market pricing stabilize, thereby protecting our investments? Would I pay half the price of a new S for a sensor upgrade to my current S camera? Would there be a greater incentive to purchase additional lenses knowing an upgrade path was available.

 

What say you?

Being able to replace the sensor (into higher megapixels and/or B&W) would be a HUGE catalyst for me to move into the S series.

 

I’ve been using the M series for years, but really see its image quality for larger prints as inferior to the S cameras I’ve tried.

 

So i’d really like to move into the S series, but what is mainly stopping me is that it’s apparently much harder to sell an S if I ever wanted. This, by extension, means I’m concerned that I could never sell the 38mp version - S006 or S007 - if the system is upgraded to higher megapixel versions down the road. The S upgrade chain is broken at the moment, in my eyes. I’ve seen loads of S006s just sitting unsold for ages in one dealer. In contrast , people are ABLE to sell their Ms effortlessly to get some cash in to upgrade into the latest and greatest M. Of course I know medium format is a more niche market than the Ms, but the S’s “attractiveness” in the secondary market would potentially be much much higher if upgrades were possible.

 

I, for one, would finally move into the S system immediately if I knew this was on the cards .....it would be a huge game changer to me if I knew that a 38mp S body could be upgraded into higher megapixel version at a later stage ......it would totally change the way I would view it (ie, I would then see it as a long-term investment, rather than how I currently view it .....ie, as a hard-to-sell bunch of S006s and even S007 bodies, not helped by their low megapixel count on paper).

 

I’d happily buy “just a 38mp” camera right now if I knew for sure a sensor upgrade path would exist for “my camera”.

Edited by Jon Warwick

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I thought there was an One-Off Leica S Monochrom for a photographer sometime back? or was it a panoramic sensor or something 

Edited by xiaubauu2009

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I thought there was an One-Off Leica S Monochrom for a photographer sometime back? or was it a panoramic sensor or something

Black and white panoramic S2 for Koudelka.

 

https://petapixel.com/2015/06/04/leica-crafted-a-one-of-a-kind-panoramic-s2-for-josef-koudelka/

 

Jeff

Edited by Jeff S

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If they do that, I am back in!

 

But I think they will keep the width of the sensor at 45mm I think, if they do that. Cause the image circle of leica S lens is only about 60mm

Edited by xiaubauu2009

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A question for those who said that they would want a S Monochrom with a new sensor with more pixels. Does this mean that you would not be interested in a S Monochrom based on the S 007 sensor? As shown by the M Monochrom, the effective resolution of a sensor without Bayer array is  up to 50% greater. Also, I would expect that time to market for a S007 Monochrom to be much faster than a next generation S.

 

Jesse

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DJMay,  I would think Leica should consider several options.  The first being a Leica S Monochrom with either a 37 MP B&W only sensor.  As you mentioned without the Bayer array the sensor would be 50% better.  Second would be an increased MP B&W sensor for the S but it is a matter of cost for the consumer.  Third, IMO, Leica should consider making the S008 (Obviously, the S007 sensor can be changed when defective, why not make it upgradeable too?) with the capability to simply replace the sensor and board with perhaps, 37, 60, 100 or 120 MP sensors etc.  The buyer selects the sensor they want in their camera and it depends on how much they want to spend doing so.  Best yet, when either the buyers requirements change or simply want to upgrade sensors in the future, they send in the their Leica S008 and a new upgraded sensor and board are installed.  Same holds true with a B&W S Monochrom sensor.  Why should the buyer have to continually pay more money for a mature camera body when they only want a sensor upgrade?   Last, perhaps the technology exists where S and even SL users could simply select either color or B&W DNG internally to the camera.  Obviously the S does with JPEGs, why not with DNG?  BTW, I submitted my ideas to Stefan Shultz for consideration several months ago.  I have a hunch Leica is moving in this direction.  Bottomline, I would want either a switchable color to B&W DNG  capability for a S00X or an upgradable S camera. r/ Mark

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an existing S007 in monochrome should come first....and ideally at the same price not a 30K special edition in Red or titanium...and another variant as and when they can actually increase the sensor size etc...

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Hello Everybody,

 

Interesting discussion.

 

Some of the original thoughts that were discussed in various magazines (Remember them?) when digital photography was  developing in the 1980's were the twin themes of:

 

First: Seamless interface from film photography to digital photography by designing digital interface mechanisms & such to replace or add on to already existent film technology in as seamless a manner as possible. That is: A digital version of a pre-existent film camera version "something" which would pretty much look & act like its film* counterpart. Sort of.

 

This, to a certain extent was done.

 

Second: Digital components which would fit into the already existent film chambers of many cameras & as technology was updated: Digital technology would be developed which could be interchanged with previous components.

 

With the exception of the add on DMR digital attachments for Leica R8's & R9's and interchangeable backs for Hasselblad, etc & larger format cameras:

For the most part: There was not that much updating possible without buying a whole new camera body.

 

Altho: Possibly here, given the size of the format, it might be possible to update & modify the various S bodies

 

Best Regards,

 

Michael

 

* By the way, I have been tossing this term around here somewhat. For those who are interested: "Film" is an outdated term for "analogue".**

 

** Does anyone here know how to load film into your watch? I a baffled.

Edited by Michael Geschlecht

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I would love an upgradeable sensor for my S 006, but I have no hopes that such dream can be fulfilled. Wouldn't you need to change the processor and electronics to run the new sensor?

 

As has been noted by other posters, the real problem of the S is the lack of an upgrade / exchange path for amateurs like me, who can't "amortise" such a system by taking on professional assignments.

 

But back to the OP's question - I would be very intrigued by a monochrome S, although I'm very happy with the b/w conversions I'm able to do with my S 006. But having a second monochrome S body is intriguing.

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I don't like using colour filters on SLR cameras, on the Leica M it's no problem since you don't look through the lens.

 

So I'd love it, but since I'd have to use colour filters I wouldnt like it since its a DSLR.

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After initial tests I have not used any coloured (rather than ND) filters on my Monochrom, orange and red threw the focus out for the way I shoot and I have not felt the need to adapt....

 

john

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Mark and hkgmatt,

 

Yes,  the capability to upgrade would be best. I wanted to know if people would pass on Monochrom with 007 sensor in the hope that a higher resolution sensor would come later. I have expressed my wishes to Leica, and I asked for input here to see what would motivate others.

 

Upgrading a sensor would also mean upgrading the supporting electronics and firmware.

 

Jesse

 

DJMay,  I would think Leica should consider several options.  The first being a Leica S Monochrom with either a 37 MP B&W only sensor.  As you mentioned without the Bayer array the sensor would be 50% better.  Second would be an increased MP B&W sensor for the S but it is a matter of cost for the consumer.  Third, IMO, Leica should consider making the S008 (Obviously, the S007 sensor can be changed when defective, why not make it upgradeable too?) with the capability to simply replace the sensor and board with perhaps, 37, 60, 100 or 120 MP sensors etc.  The buyer selects the sensor they want in their camera and it depends on how much they want to spend doing so.  Best yet, when either the buyers requirements change or simply want to upgrade sensors in the future, they send in the their Leica S008 and a new upgraded sensor and board are installed.  Same holds true with a B&W S Monochrom sensor.  Why should the buyer have to continually pay more money for a mature camera body when they only want a sensor upgrade?   Last, perhaps the technology exists where S and even SL users could simply select either color or B&W DNG internally to the camera.  Obviously the S does with JPEGs, why not with DNG?  BTW, I submitted my ideas to Stefan Shultz for consideration several months ago.  I have a hunch Leica is moving in this direction.  Bottomline, I would want either a switchable color to B&W DNG  capability for a S00X or an upgradable S camera. r/ Mark

 

 

I would love an upgradeable sensor for my S 006, but I have no hopes that such dream can be fulfilled. Wouldn't you need to change the processor and electronics to run the new sensor?

 

As has been noted by other posters, the real problem of the S is the lack of an upgrade / exchange path for amateurs like me, who can't "amortise" such a system by taking on professional assignments.

 

But back to the OP's question - I would be very intrigued by a monochrome S, although I'm very happy with the b/w conversions I'm able to do with my S 006. But having a second monochrome S body is intriguing.

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Was this focus problem at all apertures, or only wide apertures?

 

Jesse

 

After initial tests I have not used any coloured (rather than ND) filters on my Monochrom, orange and red threw the focus out for the way I shoot and I have not felt the need to adapt....

 

john

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