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LocalHero1953

CL - bugs and other issues

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We will need this thread sooner or later, so I might as well start it now.

 

Bug:

With a M lens mounted, A-mode and AutoISO set, ISO remains stuck at 100.

In M-mode ISO varies as one would expect.

With a TL lens mounted and manual focus set, ISO also varies as one would expect.

One can still set ISO manually.

 

If I have time later I'll do a reset (after exporting my profiles) and see if it makes a difference.

 

Anyone else see this?

 

(If all else fails I will RTM)

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Hmm, this may be related to M lens coding. I had been using an uncoded Summaron-M 35/2.8; I identified it as a 35/2.5, the nearest fit. I tried a Summilux 35 FLE, and AutoISO works fine. When I get time I'll try all my lenses.

 

Resetting the camera to factory defaults made no difference.

Edited by LocalHero1953

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We will need this thread sooner or later, so I might as well start it now.

 

Bug:

With a M lens mounted, A-mode and AutoISO set, ISO remains stuck at 100.

In M-mode ISO varies as one would expect.

With a TL lens mounted and manual focus set, ISO also varies as one would expect.

One can still set ISO manually.

 

If I have time later I'll do a reset (after exporting my profiles) and see if it makes a difference.

 

Anyone else see this?

 

(If all else fails I will RTM)

 

 

Hmm, this may be related to M lens coding. I had been using an uncoded Summaron-M 35/2.8; I identified it as a 35/2.5, the nearest fit. I tried a Summilux 35 FLE, and AutoISO works fine. When I get time I'll try all my lenses.

 

Resetting the camera to factory defaults made no difference.

 

 

I think this is happening only when you do not specify the lens and you have set up the minimum speed of your lens dependent on the focal length of the lens (e.g. 1/f). Because it does not know the focal length, I guess it gets stuck to iso 100.

 

If you specify a manual minimum speed (say 1/125) then all works well.

Edited by Daedalus2000

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I think this is happening only when you do not specify the lens and you have set up the minimum speed of your lens dependent on the focal length of the lens (e.g. 1/f). Because it does not know the focal length, I guess it gets stuck to iso 100.

 

If you specify a manual minimum speed (say 1/125) then all works well.

I've investigated further, and there is something in what you say, but it still looks like incorrect behaviour.

 

As I wrote, I identified the uncoded Summaron-M as a 35/2.5 when I mounted the lens. THEN I changed the user profile to my Manual Focus profile. What I didn't notice was that this changed the selected lens to 'Unidentified'. If I then reselected the M lens, AutoISO works correctly.

 

So it seems that the M lens profile doesn't survive changing profile - more strictly, the lens profile is saved as part of the user profile. It would work for that lens if I had set the lens name in my Manual Focus profile, instead of creating that profile with a different lens attached, as I did. That is not much use - I shouldn't need a separate profile for each uncoded M lens.

 

Even worse: I updated my Manual Focus profile to include the 35/2.5 as the specified lens. This works fine with the Summaron, but when I then swap to the Summilux 35 FLE, and select the Manual Focus profile, it gets identified as a Summarit 35/2.5!

 

I never tried M lenses much on the TL2 so I don't know if it had the same issue.

 

I guess I could create an Uncoded profile and a Coded profile to get over the problem, but this does not seem good, or intended behaviour: the lens profile shouldn't change with user profile IMO - if I edit a user profile with an uncoded lens specified, the profile will be saved with it and screw up its use with other lenses.

 

Yes, I could specify an exact slowest shutter speed, but that is just a work-around.

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I've investigated further, and there is something in what you say, but it still looks like incorrect behaviour.

 

As I wrote, I identified the uncoded Summaron-M as a 35/2.5 when I mounted the lens. THEN I changed the user profile to my Manual Focus profile. What I didn't notice was that this changed the selected lens to 'Unidentified'. If I then reselected the M lens, AutoISO works correctly.

 

So it seems that the M lens profile doesn't survive changing profile - more strictly, the lens profile is saved as part of the user profile. It would work for that lens if I had set the lens name in my Manual Focus profile, instead of creating that profile with a different lens attached, as I did. That is not much use - I shouldn't need a separate profile for each uncoded M lens.

 

Even worse: I updated my Manual Focus profile to include the 35/2.5 as the specified lens. This works fine with the Summaron, but when I then swap to the Summilux 35 FLE, and select the Manual Focus profile, it gets identified as a Summarit 35/2.5!

 

I never tried M lenses much on the TL2 so I don't know if it had the same issue.

 

I guess I could create an Uncoded profile and a Coded profile to get over the problem, but this does not seem good, or intended behaviour: the lens profile shouldn't change with user profile IMO - if I edit a user profile with an uncoded lens specified, the profile will be saved with it and screw up its use with other lenses.

 

Yes, I could specify an exact slowest shutter speed, but that is just a work-around.

 

I hear you, but now we are discussing two different things :

 

1) If the camera does not know the lens' focal length and you specify a minimum distance based on the focal length, it does not know what speed you want. Then, I think it is reasonable to input your own minimum  speed manually or to accept the camera's decision to stick with iso 100. I agree with you the iso 100 does not sound like the best solution, I hope Leica will think about it, but the camera cannot calculate something if it does not know the input to the function. Maybe it should default to a default minimum speed of 1/60 or something like this. What would you expect it to do?

 

2) With respect to the user profile, given that the camera saves all your settings, I would expect that the reasonable thing for a manual focus user profile is to use auto-detect for your lenses, not a specific lens. Then as you change lenses it verifies the coded lens or asks you to choose a specific coded M lens, or leave it uncoded (but then have the problem with the auto iso at 100). Have you tried that?

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I've investigated further, and there is something in what you say, but it still looks like incorrect behaviour.

 

As I wrote, I identified the uncoded Summaron-M as a 35/2.5 when I mounted the lens. THEN I changed the user profile to my Manual Focus profile. What I didn't notice was that this changed the selected lens to 'Unidentified'. If I then reselected the M lens, AutoISO works correctly.

 

So it seems that the M lens profile doesn't survive changing profile - more strictly, the lens profile is saved as part of the user profile. It would work for that lens if I had set the lens name in my Manual Focus profile, instead of creating that profile with a different lens attached, as I did. That is not much use - I shouldn't need a separate profile for each uncoded M lens.

 

Even worse: I updated my Manual Focus profile to include the 35/2.5 as the specified lens. This works fine with the Summaron, but when I then swap to the Summilux 35 FLE, and select the Manual Focus profile, it gets identified as a Summarit 35/2.5!

 

I never tried M lenses much on the TL2 so I don't know if it had the same issue.

 

I guess I could create an Uncoded profile and a Coded profile to get over the problem, but this does not seem good, or intended behaviour: the lens profile shouldn't change with user profile IMO - if I edit a user profile with an uncoded lens specified, the profile will be saved with it and screw up its use with other lenses.

 

Yes, I could specify an exact slowest shutter speed, but that is just a work-around.

AFAIK a manual setting of a lens has always been part of the user profile, and the last setting gets remembered as well when reverting to manual selection, on any digital M that has a manual lens selection.

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I hear you, but now we are discussing two different things :

 

1) If the camera does not know the lens' focal length and you specify a minimum distance based on the focal length, it does not know what speed you want. Then, I think it is reasonable to input your own minimum  speed manually or to accept the camera's decision to stick with iso 100. I agree with you the iso 100 does not sound like the best solution, I hope Leica will think about it, but the camera cannot calculate something if it does not know the input to the function. Maybe it should default to a default minimum speed of 1/60 or something like this. What would you expect it to do?

 

2) With respect to the user profile, given that the camera saves all your settings, I would expect that the reasonable thing for a manual focus user profile is to use auto-detect for your lenses, not a specific lens. Then as you change lenses it verifies the coded lens or asks you to choose a specific coded M lens, or leave it uncoded (but then have the problem with the auto iso at 100). Have you tried that?

1. Of course the camera cannot calculate a shutter speed if it does not know the focal length. Yes, I could put in a specific shutter speed, but that is only good for one FL of lens. My other uncoded lens is a Hektor 7.3cm, for which I would want a different shutter speed.

 

2. The three choices you have for lens profiles are Autodetect (which reverts to Undetected for uncoded lenses), Off, or a specific M lens profile. Yes, whatever the setting, when you change lenses, it asks you to specify a lens, allowing you to specify a particular M lens. But if you happen to change profile after changing lenses, as I did (mounting the lens with the camera turned off, specifying the lens because that is what I'm first asked, then changing to Manual Focus user profile), you lose the profile.

 

What settings are you using for uncoded lenses? Or do you not use user profiles with them?

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AFAIK a manual setting of a lens has always been part of the user profile, and the last setting gets remembered as well when reverting to manual selection, on any digital M that has a manual lens selection.

Yes, the CL remembers a manual setting when simply swapping between lenses, but it only remembers one specific M lens profile, even if you then change to a coded lens, which is not helpful.

 

It is possible that by accident of my own practice (I have only recently had more than one uncoded lens, and I have not always used a Manual Focus profile) I have only just discovered this behaviour. Nevertheless, the current setup is not helpful. I seem to have three choices:

- Have separate profiles for each uncoded lens plus one for coded lenses, which is wasteful.

- Avoid using user profiles, which I don't want to do. Even if I avoided a Manual Focus profile, I would incur this problem when switching from (e.g.) Default to Flash.

- Remember to reset the lens profile every time I change the user profile, which is unreliable. To me, logically the time to set a lens profile is when you change a lens, and then forget it till the next lens change.

Edited by LocalHero1953

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Self code all the uncoded lenses as the nearest fit.

 

That's what I did ..... including all my Voigts and Zeiss ... as I got fed up with forgetting to set/reset things on my cameras.

 

I'm not sure Leica would view this as a 'bug' ...... just an encouragement to buy new coded Leica lenses ..... 

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Self code all the uncoded lenses as the nearest fit.

 

That's what I did ..... including all my Voigts and Zeiss ... as I got fed up with forgetting to set/reset things on my cameras.

 

I'm not sure Leica would view this as a 'bug' ...... just an encouragement to buy new coded Leica lenses ..... 

Well, until they can convince me this is intended behaviour for a valid reason, I view it as a bug!

Their other choices are:

- take lens profiles out of user profiles entirely. They stay as when mounted or until changed manually.

- allow a lens profile of Uncoded Lens, which asks you to to select a lens every time you choose it, including when you change to a user profile in which that is the setting.

- Change Autodetect so that it asks you for a lens profile every time it detects an uncoded lens, rather than just revert, as now, to Unidentified without telling you.

 

Edit: Aren't you, in another life, a jeweller? That gives you access to tools for self coding I don't have!

Edited by LocalHero1953

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1. Of course the camera cannot calculate a shutter speed if it does not know the focal length. Yes, I could put in a specific shutter speed, but that is only good for one FL of lens. My other uncoded lens is a Hektor 7.3cm, for which I would want a different shutter speed.

 

2. The three choices you have for lens profiles are Autodetect (which reverts to Undetected for uncoded lenses), Off, or a specific M lens profile. Yes, whatever the setting, when you change lenses, it asks you to specify a lens, allowing you to specify a particular M lens. But if you happen to change profile after changing lenses, as I did (mounting the lens with the camera turned off, specifying the lens because that is what I'm first asked, then changing to Manual Focus user profile), you lose the profile.

 

What settings are you using for uncoded lenses? Or do you not use user profiles with them?

 

I do not use user profiles at all, but I will have a look now that you mention them. I tend to set manually most of the variables, for example if I use auto-iso, I usually set a specific speed that is appropriate to the lens and situation.So it does not matter if I use an uncoded lens. Or if I want to capture fast action I will set the speed manually to 1/500 or 1/1000 etc and let the iso do its jobs. 

 

The fact that changing profile, after you specified an uncoded lens as another lens, messes up your coding is problematic, I agree with you. 

Edited by Daedalus2000

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Edit: Aren't you, in another life, a jeweller? That gives you access to tools for self coding I don't have!

 

 not quite ...... making jewellery is just one of a number things I do to pass the time between buying cameras .......

 

in fact currently at jewellery school part time ....... my current homework is micro-pave setting 100+ 1.9mm stones in a ring .... which is proving to be a bit of a challenge 

 

I suppose after that bodging a few holes on a lens flange is a doddle .... and I do have almost enough gear at home to split the atom 

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When you turn the camera on, the top screen says "Leica CL" for 7 seconds. I know it's a Leica CL. I want the top screen to show the aperture/shutter speed/exposure compensation immediately. You can tap the shutter button to get rid of the Leica CL writing, but I shouldn't have to do so.

 

Please Leica stop the top display saying Leica CL on switch on. 

Edited by Tobers

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When I had the M9 and M-P, my use of user configurations included three for my most used lenses (setting the lens profile automatically that way) and one for all coded lenses. Since I always used the same settings on those cameras otherwise, it seemed a perfect use for the user configurations. 

 

I use my SL rather differently. With it, I have two user configurations for native lenses (one sets the camera up for manual focus/AF on demand, another sets the camera up for auto focus by default), one sets the camera up for adapted lenses with normal configuration settings, and the last sets the camera up for square format, B&W mode, defaulting to the Super-Elmar-R 15mm for my "Hasselblad SWC simulation" mode. 

 

When I got the M-D, of course it has no manual lens profile or user configuration settings. So I had my 'Lux 35mm v2 coded and all my commonly used Leica lenses are six bit coded. The few that aren't ... Voigtländer Color-Skopar 28mm f/3.5, C-S 50/2.5, M-Rokkor 90/4, and Hektor 135/4.5 ... I just use without codes: only the C-S 28mm needs to be massaged anyway. I don't really care too much about the EXIF data. 

 

I suspect that the CL would work somewhere between the SL and the M-P in terms of user configuration settings. 

 

BTW: does the two adapter stack (R Adapter M stacked on top of M Adapter L for R lens use) still work the same way as it does on the SL?

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I no longer have any R lenses to check.

I don't see why it wouldn't but others will have to confirm.

Edited by LocalHero1953

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Not bugs but the strap was a real pita to attach. Also, the battery spring loading is inadequate. It is quite fiddly to remove in the field and won't drop out if inverted. Otherwise, at least so far, a sensational little camera with fabulous colours

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Can we keep to firmware bugs and issues? Other comments on the camera deserve their own threads.

Edited by LocalHero1953

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I handled the demo unit at Leica Bellevue tday, and found a bit of bugged behavoir. They have the 23mm Summicron mounted on it, and when I tried a few test shots, it wouldn't focus. I went through the menu, and it was set to AFs and spot, but going back out, the live view screen said MF. Nothing I tried in the menu settings changed it from MF. Removing the battery for a full restart did nothing.

 

Mounting the 60mm macro came up as AF correctly, and remounting the 23mm, it came up as AF correctly.

 

No clue what was going on.

Edited by hteasley

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Lens issue.... possibly firmware hadn't updated properly  ...... or a 'sticky' pin on the body ....... or dirty contacts on the lens not allowing full connection. 

 

Doesn't sound like a bug to me. 

Edited by thighslapper

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