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Leica CL vs Sony A6000 (6300, 6500)

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Not that good a news for your CV 15/4.5 i suspect

I use CV15 on my Nex6 (star trails, wide grab shot etc. etc.). Why should it be different on A6500?

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I use CV15 on my Nex6 (star trails, wide grab shot etc. etc.). Why should it be different on A6500?

 

I thought that corners were soft on thick sensor stacks but i may be wrong. My apologies then

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I thought that corners were soft on thick sensor stacks but i may be wrong. My apologies then

It is not bad. I will find a sample and post a link later for crops (can't include photo since neither body nor lens is Leica). This is why my main use of 15CV on Sony is star trail, timelapse of sunrise/sunset (video doesn't care about corner softness) and quick wide grab shot etc. From your earlier example, I can see it is better on CL. If I need that wide and sharp then I simply shoot it on M240 and crop to 12mp. I also have an option to go wider crop than 21mm.

 

Few samples from this on Nex6 (EXIF is wiped out in my flickr upload for some). For me this is special usage lens. The examples below are all from interval shots.

https://flic.kr/p/WbMD43 (grab from a timelapse sequence)

https://flic.kr/p/x268HY (Interval shots for capturing lightning)

https://flic.kr/p/weEZNh (star trail)

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I have the TL and almost all the TL lenses. Leica CL, TL, TL-2, A6000, A6500, Fuji etc. Whatever are all good cameras...

I would have a hard time guessing what camera took what if I had to review pictures of all these cameras.

I choses the T system because I am familiar with the brand, I like the tacrif feedback their products have and I feel pleasure using it. I also really like looking at my equipment. I like quality products and Leica T or CL is just that.

I have Gitzo tripods...they are a joy to use, touch, feel.

These are my toys ! A simple as that.

I saw an A6000 at an electronic shop some days ago. It could be demo-ed. When I took the body it was so light and plasticky that for a second I thought it was just a mockup like you sometimes see in phone shops. But not...it was the real A6000.

I am not saying it is a bad camera at all...it is just to made to the build quality I am used to. It could be 10x better spec wise that I would not buy it.

We all are our criterias...and from what you say it seem you do not need to change your camera and lenses. But who knows...life is not always made of wise and logical decisions

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Interesting thread!

 

One question from me: is anyone here familiar with both systems able to advise on the following:

 

A6500 + Zeiss 24mm f/1.8 vs Leica CL + 23mm f/2 Asph?

 

Let’s ignore IBIS and UI and concentrate on overall IQ and AF peformance.

 

Thanks beforehand.

Edited by Balivernes

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Interesting thread!

 

One question from me: is anyone here familiar with both systems able to advise on the following:

 

A6500 + Zeiss 24mm f/1.8 vs Leica CL + 23mm f/2 Asph?

 

Let’s ignore IBIS and UI and concentrate on overall IQ and AF peformance.

 

Thanks beforehand.

Even without any experience with both setup, I can tell you that there won't be any difference in IQ. The difference come from other things (system compatibility, haptics, AWB, jpeg, speed, IBIS etc).

 

Edit: I should have clarified my "no diffference" comment by adding that CL combo IQ can be taken for granted but I expect Zeiss 24 to be close (although if you go by reviews then it has some week spots. Whether you will see it in practice or not is another thing).

Edited by jmahto

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Concentrating only on IQ I would chose the A6500 since it is much cheaper and IQ is the only criteria in your decision process.

But in my case...I would not chose A6400 FOR ME.

 

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Edit : I would not chose A6500 for me.

I talk about the price because you can get similar IQ than the CL but for a lot cheaper.

 

Sorry for edit but I could not find edit button on smartphone

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Even without any experience with both setup, I can tell you that there won't be any difference in IQ. The difference come from other things (system compatibility, haptics, AWB, jpeg, speed, IBIS etc).

 

Edit: I should have clarified my "no diffference" comment by adding that CL combo IQ can be taken for granted but I expect Zeiss 24 to be close (although if you go by reviews then it has some week spots. Whether you will see it in practice or not is another thing).

 

 

Thanks. I do suspect IQ to be very similar indeed. I experienced the Zeiss 24mm a few years ago with a Nex 7, and liked what I saw in terms of definition, contrast, colour, etc, while disliking that camera's UI/haptics. I also liked that lens's close focus ability. I have never played with the T system, and hear very little about the 23mm f/2 asph, but suspect output will be  on par.

 

However, output IQ remains a bit theoretical if focus is off. Hence my curiosity also for AF performance, and in particular how the CL + 23mm measures up to the 6500 + 24mm in terms of AF speed in low light and in terms of eye/face AF dependability. I assume the 6500 would behave like the current generation A7 system in that respect, and I found eye AF to be absolutely magical when I tried a A7 II during a demo portrait session.  I have no idea how the CL behaves in that respect.

 

Price is not the key issue in my query. I do find the CL much more "elegant" as a companion to my M10 system. But I do not want to feel handicapped when using that particular CL/23mm combo in the challenging light and settings (parties, dinners, bars, family gatherings, festivals, etc), where I plan to use it.

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I doubt there is eye focus for CL. There is face focus that will work for wides though. I am going by what I read.

 

From your last para, it seems Q will be better fit.

Edited by jmahto

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IQ alone can't be the deciding factor since I believe all are same. Unless you are pixel connoisseur (I just coined that term). Haptics, zen and aesthetics matter as well. I chose Sony A6500 since CL doesn't have IBIS (which I need). I suffer through Sony's UI since they have something that Leica doesn't have. At the end it is all about weighing your pros and cons. 

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Guest VVJ

Interesting discussion.  IMHO going for the CL or TL2 makes sense if:

 

1) you also want to shoot M-glass.  Leica APS-C bodies will support M-lenses better than any other APS-C body.

2) you will use the TL-lenses also on the SL for video (or for stills).

 

As a standalone APS-C system I don't believe the CL or TL2 provides any value over Fuji (or Sony) and it is a lot more expensive.  

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Interesting discussion.  IMHO going for the CL or TL2 makes sense if:

 

1) you also want to shoot M-glass.  Leica APS-C bodies will support M-lenses better than any other APS-C body.

2) you will use the TL-lenses also on the SL for video (or for stills).

 

As a standalone APS-C system I don't believe the CL or TL2 provides any value over Fuji (or Sony) and it is a lot more expensive.  

In my case, it was mainly ergonomics coupled with great TL lenses that led me to CL. 

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"...can you help me decide, why do I need a CL when I have a small walk around to go with my Leica M10 and A7R"

 

No, you don't "need" a CL. If you already have an a6000, A7R and M10, a CL is nothing but GAS.

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Now after playing with A6500 for couple of days I can at least give half the story (no experience with CL). Surprisingly, the sensor inprovment over Nex6 is modest. Only the upper limit has gone up by 1 stop but you get more grain. In fact at equivalent ISO, it has same grain as Nex6. In comparison, M240 looks so much better (finer grain with more smoothness) for same ISO. It is only that M240 limits at 3200.

 

Now based on what I read, if CL is closer to M10, then it means it's output will be better than A6500 at equivalent ISO.

 

Going past sensor performance, the biggest advantage for me was IBIS (I expected it). I can shoot my 135mm at 1/15 and 180mm to 1/30 consistently. Almost 2-3 stops advantage. Combining it with higher useable ISO, it will become my long lens solution.

 

If only CL had IBIS!

Edited by jmahto

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Owning the NEX6 I can assure you that the CL output is vastly superior, both in colour and in smooth tonal transitions. My advice would be to get the CL and a Hama shoulder-pod. That will give you a couple of stops.

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I an flummoxed Jaap. Which product is this? I can’t locate it on the web despite Herculean efforts to do so.

 

Might you have a pic?

 

Google "Hama shoulder support" and it should come up.

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I an flummoxed Jaap. Which product is this? I can’t locate it on the web despite Herculean efforts to do so.

 

Might you have a pic?

Or any other brand that catches your fancy... Edit: Sorry, the brand is Rowi...

 

 

 

 

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