Jump to content
Einst_Stein

Next, a full frame upgrade, ML,

Recommended Posts

Advertisement (gone after registration)

Leica has now well-received M10, SL and (apparently) CL bodies. So the M- and L-mounts are in business, with the caveat that we are still waiting for the announced SL-lenses. But they will come. The S-system is the outlier here: Outstanding optics (ignoring the AF-stuff), but bodies with lagging tech.spec. It will be interesting to see what Leica intends to do here, or are playing with. Optical viewfinder a la 007? Or a mirror-less body with EVF a la a scaled-up SL but with S-mount? Sensor resolution? ISO capabilities? Maestro-III processor? etc. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not really. It would eat into both the SL and M lines, rather undesirable I would say. 

Heaven forfend that Leica should sell more cameras!

 

If someone doesn't buy an SL because they bought an ML/QL why should Leica care?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree that this is exactly the SL.

If you talk about a full frame camera with M mount it would be a different thing, but FF with L mount and AF = SL.

Yeah, but the SL is big and ugly. Half the fun of shooting Leica is that the cameras are beautiful.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Actually, I will buy a CL to use with long, heavy lenses. And it will handle well, as those lenses are held under their pivot point where the tripod mount is located.

It might work for you and some, but it won't work for most. Canon has their Eos M series of mirrorless crop cameras, which are basically their entry level DSLRs without a mirror and a native lens set smaller than their EF and EFS lines. The bigger lenses can be mounted on the M with an adaptor, but then they are unbalanced and awkward and need more grip than the small bodies can provide.

 

A similar example is in the digital backs like the Olympus Air, where a smartphone remotely operates the camera which is just a sensor that you stick on the back of a lens. Or the smartphone may be attached to the sensor. In theory, these would be wildly popular, because everyone has a smartphone and you basically eliminate the cost of the actual camera. In practice, not so much.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

M form factored camera does not work with SL lens? Leica is presenting all SL lenses in CL family. I am happy with SL 90-280 on T. The balance issue is managed by the handling of the lens not the body.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A M-10 like camera with EVF replacing the OVF/RF is a the top of my want list.

All the lenses I need/want already exist in M-mount ( such a diverse family from compact to super fast )

No desire for large/fat AF lenses or the tradeoff of crop factor and edge smearing.

But it will be a complimentary camera - the RF equipped M-10 and film Ms will remain in my kit.

The main use of the EVF would be for technical situations e.g. accurate framing or classic fast lenses with focus shift.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Advertisement (gone after registration)

A M-10 like camera with EVF replacing the OVF/RF is a the top of my want list.

All the lenses I need/want already exist in M-mount ( such a diverse family from compact to super fast )

 

Same here. Just handled the CL. Sweet beast. The real thing would be a QM or however it will be called. I do not buy this is eating into the sales. There will be quite some going to own both actually, and a lot of the body design and layout can be reused.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would not be surprised if Leica offers a full frame L mount camera like CL, simply a M with EVF.and AF.

 

With an L mount presumably

The SL is only 1cm larger than the M (height and width). would it really be worth the effort?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

ML could be a perfect counter part for SL.

 

No, it couldn't. Just quit fantasizing. If you want a 35-mm-format full-frame Leica camera with EVF, interchangable lenses, and auto-focus, the SL it is. There is neither room nor need for a 'counter part.' In a few years, there will be an SL2, presumably ... as well as more SL lenses. But no other product line besides the SL line.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A M-10 like camera with EVF replacing the OVF/RF is a the top of my want list.

All the lenses I need/want already exist in M-mount ( such a diverse family from compact to super fast )

No desire for large/fat AF lenses or the tradeoff of crop factor and edge smearing.

But it will be a complimentary camera - the RF equipped M-10 and film Ms will remain in my kit.

The main use of the EVF would be for technical situations e.g. accurate framing or classic fast lenses with focus shift.

It is not unreasonable that such a camera would be at the top of the wish list of some M owners - but of how many? The percentage of photographers wedded to the Leica M is marginal already, the percentage of M owners who would actually buy such a camera rather low, after all, the M has an EVF nowadays for those exceptional situations and otherwise there are the SL, TL and CL - positioning it firmly in special edition territory - at a price that would decimate the number of buyers again.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It might work for you and some, but it won't work for most. Canon has their Eos M series of mirrorless crop cameras, which are basically their entry level DSLRs without a mirror and a native lens set smaller than their EF and EFS lines. The bigger lenses can be mounted on the M with an adaptor, but then they are unbalanced and awkward and need more grip than the small bodies can provide.

 

A similar example is in the digital backs like the Olympus Air, where a smartphone remotely operates the camera which is just a sensor that you stick on the back of a lens. Or the smartphone may be attached to the sensor. In theory, these would be wildly popular, because everyone has a smartphone and you basically eliminate the cost of the actual camera. In practice, not so much.

 

The point is that large/heavy lenses don't need more grip. I admit that handling heavy and large lenses requires some technique, but I have done so on the M for over forty years and never have been hindered by the (lack of) size or heft of the body. The R4-R7 series was quite compact as well. The point is that you need to learn to handle the lens, not try and clutch the camera that is hanging behind it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It is not unreasonable that such a camera would be at the top of the wish list of some M owners - but of how many? 

 

Why not find out? Leica could consider a kickstarter campaign, announce such an M with build-in EVF or hybrid instead OVF, plus 36 MP etc, collect 1000 EUR deposit and produce if they hit their target, otherwise refund. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It is not unreasonable that such a camera would be at the top of the wish list of some M owners - but of how many? The percentage of photographers wedded to the Leica M is marginal already, the percentage of M owners who would actually buy such a camera rather low, after all, the M has an EVF nowadays for those exceptional situations and otherwise there are the SL, TL and CL - positioning it firmly in special edition territory - at a price that would decimate the number of buyers again.

The argument is logical, but the emotional attachment is missing with the SL.

I hope the overwhelming demand shown for the classic slim M10 highlighted the value of that form factor.

Therefore I disagree with your low demand and sales decimation predictions.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It is a common error to assume that one's personal wish is an universal need - I often fall into that trap myself.

BTW, the thinness of the M10 is a one of the deal-breakers for me. The CL is a far more attractive camera for me - I will stick with my M9 and MM, but may sell my M240 for the CL.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm surprised that so many M users seem to want an EVF camera. I often read comments from people about how they prefer the rangefinder and the ability to see 'around' the field of view etc., but then they want to throw that away for an EVF. 

 

That said it's not difficult to imagine that Leica could make an M mount Q style of camera if they wanted to. I guess they just don't think there's enough demand to warrant it. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It is not unreasonable that such a camera would be at the top of the wish list of some M owners - but of how many? The percentage of photographers wedded to the Leica M is marginal already, the percentage of M owners who would actually buy such a camera rather low, after all, the M has an EVF nowadays for those exceptional situations and otherwise there are the SL, TL and CL - positioning it firmly in special edition territory - at a price that would decimate the number of buyers again.

How many would have been interested in a B&W M camera, or one without an LCD screen. Even after these cameras were released, many here (me included, when the Monochrom was first released) said “dumb idea, it will never sell”. And yet ...

 

I seem to recall that the M system remains Leica’s biggest seller. Expanding that market (as Leica have done with the variants) seems pretty successful.

 

The attraction is the M lenses, and the M system, and all it entails. Adding an L mount makes such a camera something else entirely. It becomes AF and it will have all the additional features which you don’t have or want on an M (see M(240) for feature bloat).

Edited by IkarusJohn

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It might have been nice to have both RF and EVF options built in, but apparently Leica experimented with that and found both options compromised.

 

Perhaps some would like a second M body with EVF to accommodate lenses outside 28-90.

 

Jeff

Edited by Jeff S

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Why not find out? Leica could consider a kickstarter campaign, announce such an M with build-in EVF or hybrid instead OVF, plus 36 MP etc, collect 1000 EUR deposit and produce if they hit their target, otherwise refund. 

Leica? Kickstarter?.......

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I can imagine Leica Go Fund Me, with customers responding Go Fu** You.

 

Jeff

Edited by Jeff S

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...