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I agree its an odd implementation and your suggestion makes far more sense.

Also there is a bug with "Profile". If its selected its only used once then the func lion button reverts to the first function next time.

 

I think the selected functions for the Fn button are unique to each saved profile. It seems like this and if so, I would have no argument with that. For example if I set up a profile for video, I would want a whole lot of different functions on the Fn button, than I would for still photography. I have set up a profile for flash, where I have Flash Options as one of the active functions on the Fn button, whereas I don't on my Daylight profile. 

 

Wilson

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To my way of thinking, the way the function button works when you want to select another function from its menu is not logical. You give a long press on the Fn button, which then accesses functions you have allocated to the Fn button in the main menu. You scroll up or down to select the function you want to use with the Fn button and confirm by pressing the centre button of the 4 way controller. My way of thinking says this should take you into the function you have selected but instead it selects the function but closes the menu, so you now have to give a brief press to the Fn button to access your newly selected function. If you are changing the selected function of the Fn button, I feel it is most likely because you want to access that function. If you don't, it is very easy to close the Fn menu by a half press of the shutter release. 

 

What do others think?

 

Wilson

 

 

this is really messed up, as well as the assignments for the right wheel.

 

In my opinion many problems could be avoided if Leica would youse the touchscreen for the menues and/or a graphic menue as on the Sony As.

 

Also I cannot stress enough that Leica should keep the same menus on all their cameras. While not 100% perfect, the 4 button layout of the S and later of the SL was not that bad that they now had to come up with something new as this two wheel concept. I really want to have identic menu concepts on all my Leica cameras!

 

Btw the menue buttons on the right of the screen is placed to low.

 

I wonder if someone at Leica is using the cameras ......

 

Nevertheless the CL is a nice camera, I just wish they had more compact lenses to offer. They could be manual, why not ....

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Maybe it's just my big hands but I have yet to find a digital camera that is impervious to accidental mis-setting during use.  Inevitably at some point during a shoot I will suddenly discover that instead of shooting at f2.8 I'm at f6.3, the ISO will have suddenly shifted to 25000, or some such other horror will have occurred.  As a long-term film M user, I find this behavior frustrating, annoying and unacceptable. The film M's just stayed out of your way.  I can live with this unreliable behavior in my Panasonic GX-8 but one looks for something better from Leica. So far the Leica Q has come closest to this ideal.  

 

I've been using a rental CL (with the Leica 23 and 18mm lenses) for a week now and have really enjoyed shooting with it.  The camera is quick to focus in even dim room light, the thumb wheels are a clever solution for accessing the main camera settings, the menu system is no worse than others I've used and in many ways better once I figured it out, and, needless to say, the image quality is wonderful.  The Fn button is a really clever way to access the most used settings, too.  

 

But, but, but...   the camera is way to easy to knock off the desired settings and the wheel locks are only a partial solution.  When I set the single-area focus point in the middle of the frame I want it to stay there!!! and not suddenly drift off to the top of the picture.  So, here are my suggestions for a firmware change:

 

1.  Add "Lock Four-Way Controller" to the "Wheel Lock in Live View" menu item, and

 

2.  Release the locks on all the wheels and buttons when the camera is put to the eye for shooting (EVF mode) and/or (preferably and) release them with a quick double press of the Fn button.  A quick double press should then re-lock them.  This should not interfere with the current uses of the button. 

 

I think these functions could be added with just firmware changes and, if done, might just tempt me back into the Leica fold.  I could once again hold my head up high when I went to LHSA and other Leica meetings instead of having to "get by" with my PanaLeica lenses.  ; - ) 

 

I hope all you Leica gnomes in Wetzlar and Panasonic geeks in Japan are listening.    Many thanks.  Comments? 

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I also find the three steps to change and execute a button function rather mind-blowing.  So I don't.  Right now I am using the CL as a sort of mini-M10, with factory settings on the two wheels and two function buttons, then dive into the menus when I need something more complicated, like to change from AF to MF (if I can't just leave it on AF and have it become MF when I use an M lens.)  As my uses get a bit more varied, I expect I'll set up some profiles.

 

On the SL there is a choice to either have the focus mag/AF point reset to the center or stay where you left it (assuming you know that you left it somewhere).  I am often shifting it without realizing it and having to find the little cross in bad light is a hassle, but it beats having it reset after each shot when you don't want it to.

 

I've entered wheel lock a few times without realizing it, but I now know where in the menu to go to undo it.  But why isn't that reversible with another touch? 

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Maybe it's just my big hands but I have yet to find a digital camera that is impervious to accidental mis-setting during use.  Inevitably at some point during a shoot I will suddenly discover that instead of shooting at f2.8 I'm at f6.3, the ISO will have suddenly shifted to 25000, or some such other horror will have occurred.  As a long-term film M user, I find this behavior frustrating, annoying and unacceptable. The film M's just stayed out of your way.  I can live with this unreliable behavior in my Panasonic GX-8 but one looks for something better from Leica. So far the Leica Q has come closest to this ideal.  

 

I've been using a rental CL (with the Leica 23 and 18mm lenses) for a week now and have really enjoyed shooting with it.  The camera is quick to focus in even dim room light, the thumb wheels are a clever solution for accessing the main camera settings, the menu system is no worse than others I've used and in many ways better once I figured it out, and, needless to say, the image quality is wonderful.  The Fn button is a really clever way to access the most used settings, too.  

 

But, but, but...   the camera is way to easy to knock off the desired settings and the wheel locks are only a partial solution.  When I set the single-area focus point in the middle of the frame I want it to stay there!!! and not suddenly drift off to the top of the picture.  So, here are my suggestions for a firmware change:

 

1.  Add "Lock Four-Way Controller" to the "Wheel Lock in Live View" menu item, and

 

2.  Release the locks on all the wheels and buttons when the camera is put to the eye for shooting (EVF mode) and/or (preferably and) release them with a quick double press of the Fn button.  A quick double press should then re-lock them.  This should not interfere with the current uses of the button. 

 

I think these functions could be added with just firmware changes and, if done, might just tempt me back into the Leica fold.  I could once again hold my head up high when I went to LHSA and other Leica meetings instead of having to "get by" with my PanaLeica lenses.  ; - ) 

 

I hope all you Leica gnomes in Wetzlar and Panasonic geeks in Japan are listening.    Many thanks.  Comments? 

You are certainly right about the GX8. At least it has a reversible screen, so you can avoid moving the focus point with the tip of your nose, but it is really difficult not to hit the disp button with the inside of your thumb

.

I must say that the CL has given me only a minimum of such problems, but a "lock centre focus point" option would be welcome.

As for the setting of the wheels and the center button, once one gets used to the system, ( and sets it up properly in the menu) it works quite fast and intuitive.

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But at least we have the double tap on the screen to re-centre the focus frame. I wish the SL had this - it doesn't - I just tried. A well thought out idea for the CL. I too find I have less problem with unintentional nose taps on the CL than the SL. I suspect it is due to the far lower weight, that it is much easier to hold the CL just off your nose. I have a handle on order for the CL (any seen yet?) and as and when Steve Barnett gets round to making Thumbies for the CL, I will mount one of those as well.

 

Wilson

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Double tap to recentre is fine only if you use the rear display for LV, which I don't.

 

I no longer attempt to use the multiply reassignable dials/buttons as intended. I just customise them with single functions. If there was a quick way to access the alternative list I might use it, but long-press > select > accept > press > adjust just doesn't do it for me. I don't find it a problem in use: it doesn't slow me up (there's only a limited number of functions I need quick access to), but IMO this is a dead end in user interface design, whereas the TL2's interface is a lost opportunity that should have been implemented in the CL. If they lacked the courage to do that (which is sad), then the SL's 4-button interface was a ready-made option that should have been chosen. 

 

(IMO the M10 interface is fine for the M10, but is not appropriate for fully AF, AE, EVF cameras which necessarily have more extensive functions to set).

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I have changed my default from spot focus to face detect, partly because I can't rely on the focus spot to be where I want it in a hurry, but also because, for its use as my casual, social camera, face detect is quite useful, and defaults to an acceptable alternative focus if it can't find a face.

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Leica implements long and short pause for button usage.

 

Just invoke a long press needed on the arrow keys in shooting mode to move the focus point ...... to avoid inadvertent activation ...... and a long press on the centre button to re-center it (*). No need for an additional menu item. 

 

(*) or more ratiionally ..... a short tap to re-centre and a long press to change the view mode. 

Edited by thighslapper

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You are certainly right about the GX8. At least it has a reversible screen, so you can avoid moving the focus point with the tip of your nose, but it is really difficult not to hit the disp button with the inside of your thumb

.

I must say that the CL has given me only a minimum of such problems, but a "lock centre focus point" option would be welcome.

As for the setting of the wheels and the center button, once one gets used to the system, ( and sets it up properly in the menu) it works quite fast and intuitive.

The wheels and center buttons *are* a great way to set the main camera functions but, to me anyway, they are still either way too easy to inadvertently mis-set or, if locked, a nuisance to unlock. I was delighted to discover how easy they were to operate with the camera to the eye, something I’ve found hard to do with any other camera I’ve ever used. Hence the idea of automatically unlocking them when the camera is brought to the eye.

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While I had lots of problems with accidentally moving the focus point on SL, I have no such issue with CL. On SL, I had to lock the focus point to the center, which could be a solution for CL as well.

Another solution would be to 'unlock' focus point movement with shutter half-press.

Arrow key long-press to unlock would be annoying, IMO, and unlocking with eye sensor would work only if you do not use LCD for framing.

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Focvus Peaking does not seem to work when used with the new 90F4 lens when used with out close up attachement.

 

It could be m y camera and not universal problerm.

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Focvus Peaking does not seem to work when used with the new 90F4 lens when used with out close up attachement.

It could be m y camera and not universal problerm.

 

My 90/4 macro v1 has the same coding as v2 (100111) i believe and works normally on CL. You may wish to clean out the body's electrical contacts, lens' coding pits and adapter's sensor if you did not do it already.

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* It would be good if the electronic shutter would allow for shutter speeds longer than 1 sec.

 

* And please, let us get an option to turn off noise reduction on long shutter speeds...

 

(both requests mirror those of the SL).

 

 

And also to allow longer exposures than 32s using the T setting - preferably without noise reduction.

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When using the camera in manual focus mode with TL lenses, a focusing scale would be a real boon so that it's possible to pre-focus at a set distance.  If this could be paired with a couple of pointers showing the depth of field at a given aperture would also be very handy for landscape work or any other occasion when setting focus to the hyperfocal distance.

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I recently ran into the 30 min limitation on video (on my SL) when capturing a play.  This is an outdated restriction.  Panasonic in their M43 cameras and many of the smaller chip video providers (e.g. GoPro) don't impose it.  I'd like to see the CL and SL eliminate it as well.

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And also to allow longer exposures than 32s using the T setting - preferably without noise reduction.

 

 

+1. Second that. For landscape photographers to consider it as a viable companion to the SL, long exposures longer than 32 seconds is a must. Max 30 minutes like the SL would be perfect, max around 12 minutes would be great, 125 seconds (like the M10) would be the minimum acceptable.

 

Best regards,

 

Vieri

Edited by Vieri

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