Current 50 Summilux due for an update?

[6bit]

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I am relatively new to he leica world. I noticed, hopefully correctly, the current 50 Summilux was released around 2004.

 

A lot has changed since then. Is this lens considered older or more to the point, is it due a refresh/update? I’m unsure how leica works in this regard. I am also unsure what constitutes time for an updated design.

[riswanc]

I’m not sure when it was first released for the current summilux but i see no reason for an upgrade

 

 

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[lct]

Summilux 50/1.4 asph is a young optical design (13 years) compared to 50/1.4 v2 (30 years) let alone v2 + v3 (43 years). Not sure if its minor flaws can be fixed at affordable cost in 2017.

Edited November 21, 2017 by lct

[Jeff S]

What's your concern with the lens? I enjoy mine as is, aside from a trip to DAG to solve a somewhat sticky focus action. Wonderful optically.... like most all Leica lenses.

 

This one is typical Karbe design, a long time in planning and not easy to make...

 

https://www.shutterbug.com/content/leica-lens-saga-interview-peter-karbe

(2 pages)

 

Jeff

Edited November 21, 2017 by Jeff S

[Letin]

I had similar concern before purchasing mine earlier this year. BUT let me assure you, even an update is due any time, you would want to buy the current one and hold on to it, save money and buy the updated lens when the fund is ready. Current version is a keeper.

[tobey bilek]

Unless you want 50 APO Summicron,  buy the `Lux now

[jmahto]

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Best lens for me. There are no flaws. I even like the flare at 1.4. Perfect lens.

[luigi bertolotti]

I hope for a "refresh"... so that the mean price of current used items can drop a bit...

Edited November 21, 2017 by luigi bertolotti

[jaapv]

I am relatively new to he leica world. I noticed, hopefully correctly, the current 50 Summilux was released around 2004.

 

A lot has changed since then. Is this lens considered older or more to the point, is it due a refresh/update? I’m unsure how leica works in this regard. I am also unsure what constitutes time for an updated design.

Some Leica lenses have been produced for three decades before any need for "refreshment" was felt. Please do not carry the digital upgrade frenzy over into the optical world.

[6bit]

 

What's your concern with the lens? I enjoy mine as is, aside from a trip to DAG to solve a somewhat sticky focus action. Wonderful optically.... like most all Leica lenses.

 

This one is typical Karbe design, a long time in planning and not easy to make...

 

https://www.shutterbug.com/content/leica-lens-saga-interview-peter-karbe

(2 pages)

 

Jeff

Jeff, I have no concerns regarding this lens. I just noticed it was released 13 years ago which prompted me to ask about Leica’s refresh/update cycles. I didn’t know if 13 years was a long time or if the kens was still considered to be so good a refresh would not be needed. It sounds as if a lens update would just increase prices to improve very little.

 

With Canon they have AF so refreshes/updates may come at more frequent intervals for more reasons than just optical. This blog entry here, http://www.streetsilhouettes.com/home/2017/11/17/sensor-comparison-of-5-cameras , certainly thinks putting the 50 Summilux up against Canons latest 50 may not be quite fair. My choice of words may be inadequate so be sure to read what the author had to say.

 

Plus, it should also be noted the Leica 50mm f/1.4 Summilux ASPH isn't exactly new anymore, and would likely put the Leica M10 at a disadvantage.

 

 

 

Some Leica lenses have been produced for three decades before any need for "refreshment" was felt. Please do not carry the digital upgrade frenzy over into the optical world.

Jaapv, I fail to see how I’m carrying the digital upgrade frenzy into the optical world. I am simply asking a few questions about Leica tendencies and what prompts them to do a refresh.

[M11 for me]

We can compare the update cycles with big companies as Canon. We see then that more and more „quite recent“ lenses are replaced. The point is often the same: New improved sensors require new and better lenses they say. One might think that Leica lenses are different story. But looking at MTFs will tell us the real performance. I am aware that sometimes the Leica MTFs (and maybe Canon’s) are not shows correctly. Anyway we should not get blind over Leica. I do not say that Leica lenses are not good enough. Certainly the contrary is true. They are wonderful lenses. But others are good too and there are reasons (other than pure business) why lenses are replaced.

 

I do not want to appear over critical. But its my feeling that others perform equally well. And as I have so many contacts with Canon (including myself as a Canon user) and Nikon users I hear that they all are very happy with their gear. And I know 1 photographer who uses a Leica M (including myself) besides Canon (and others) and he loves it. He could even show some of his work on the Leica Switzerland web site :-)

[Jager]

For context, look at the 50 Summicron.  Released in, what, 1979?  Leica looked at "refreshing" that lens at various junctures and each time kept circling back to the same conclusion...  they could not meaningfully improve it, optically, at any kind of price point that was remotely reasonable.  When they finally did release the APO Summicron a handful of years back, it was only after Karbe and his team were basically given a cost-is-no-object brief.  The original, "standard" Summicron remains in the catalog.

 

When the 50 Summilux ASPH was released - not all that long ago in Leica terms - it was broadly considered the best general 50 prime lens in the world.  I'm not sure it has relinquished that crown.

 

There are other great 50's out there (not least being Leica's own Noctilux 0.95 and APO Summicron).  One can make the case that the Zeiss Otus 55mm f/1.4 APO-Distagon is better - but that's a much larger lens.  In terms of what reasonably fits an M camera, I think the 50 Lux ASPH is as good as it gets.  Certainly, if I could only have one 50, that'd be the one.

 

And I wouldn't give a second thought to the release cycles of the Japanese marques.  They produce some wonderful stuff, but they're much more marketing driven than is Leica.

[6bit]

For context, look at the 50 Summicron.  Released in, what, 1979?  Leica looked at "refreshing" that lens at various junctures and each time kept circling back to the same conclusion...  they could not meaningfully improve it, optically, at any kind of price point that was remotely reasonable.  When they finally did release the APO Summicron a handful of years back, it was only after Karbe and his team were basically given a cost-is-no-object brief.  The original, "standard" Summicron remains in the catalog.

 

When the 50 Summilux ASPH was released - not all that long ago in Leica terms - it was broadly considered the best general 50 prime lens in the world.  I'm not sure it has relinquished that crown.

 

There are other great 50's out there (not least being Leica's own Noctilux 0.95 and APO Summicron).  One can make the case that the Zeiss Otus 55mm f/1.4 APO-Distagon is better - but that's a much larger lens.  In terms of what reasonably fits an M camera, I think the 50 Lux ASPH is as good as it gets.  Certainly, if I could only have one 50, that'd be the one.

 

And I wouldn't give a second thought to the release cycles of the Japanese marques.  They produce some wonderful stuff, but they're much more marketing driven than is Leica.

 

 

That is some EXCELLENT information. Someone should compile a book of such information. That type of history is interesting to me.

[pgk]

Unlike most other camera systems the performance of M lenses on M camera bodies is limited by the data transfer between body and camera (6-bit only) so there are not as many reasons for updating an M lens which already works very well. Reducing manufacturing costs may be one, but improving performance is of less relevance since the existing lens is exceptionally good already.

[pedaes]

That is some EXCELLENT information. Someone should compile a book of such information. That type of history is interesting to me.

 

They have - Leica Compendium at bottom of page http://www.imx.nl/photo/styled-49/. Or look for Leica Pocket Book (8th Edition). Or the out of print Leica Collectors Guide etc.etc.

[jaapv]

Jeff, I have no concerns regarding this lens. I just noticed it was released 13 years ago which prompted me to ask about Leica’s refresh/update cycles. I didn’t know if 13 years was a long time or if the kens was still considered to be so good a refresh would not be needed. It sounds as if a lens update would just increase prices to improve very little.

 

With Canon they have AF so refreshes/updates may come at more frequent intervals for more reasons than just optical. This blog entry here, http://www.streetsilhouettes.com/home/2017/11/17/sensor-comparison-of-5-cameras , certainly thinks putting the 50 Summilux up against Canons latest 50 may not be quite fair. My choice of words may be inadequate so be sure to read what the author had to say.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Jaapv, I fail to see how I’m carrying the digital upgrade frenzy into the optical world. I am simply asking a few questions about Leica tendencies and what prompts them to do a refresh.

They will only upgrade a lens if it serves a useful optical/technical purpose, and as optics is a rather ripe science, that is not all too often. So there is no real update cycle.

The comparison with Japanese manufacturers does not quite work, their design philosophy is quite different from Leica (and, to a certain extent, Zeiss).

[pippy]

This pretty comprehensive comparison should reassure you that the current Summilux can still perform at a decent level;

 

https://wordpress.lensrentals.com/blog/2014/06/comparing-rangefinder-and-slr-50mm-lenses-version-0-7/

 

Pip.

[Jeff S]

That is some EXCELLENT information. Someone should compile a book of such information. That type of history is interesting to me.

Erwin Puts has... several. Start with the Leica Chronicle....

http://www.imx.nl/photo/styled-49/

 

His blog also covers many lenses.... http://www.imx.nl/photo/blog/

(Scroll down the menu)

 

Or just hang around the forum and explore old discussions.... lens updates fuel years worth. The 50 Summilux ASPH reputation has been well discussed, then compared ad nauseam when the 50 APO Summicron arrived. And if you read the Karbe interview I linked above, you'll know more than most about the 50 Summilux ASPH, and why it took him a decade to design.

 

Cutting to the chase, you should know that virtually all Leica M lenses are good (including the less expensive Summarit line). And they are expensive, in part because of their small size relative to performance. But used prices typically hold value. So you can buy what your budget allows and not sweat the small stuff and still be happy making pictures.

 

Jeff

Edited November 21, 2017 by Jeff S

[jaapv]

That is some EXCELLENT information. Someone should compile a book of such information. That type of history is interesting to me.

http://www.imx.nl/photo/

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Hallo,

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[jcatral14]

If it ain't broke...