Dry mount press and usage

[Martin B]

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Quick question to the knowledgeable crowd here - I am happy owner of a Bogen 18.5 x 22.5" dry mount press, and it works very well to dry mount my silver gelatin prints onto the backboard paper. But I also tried using it to dry fiber-based silver gelatin prints to avoid wrinkling during the drying process - did anyone of you ever try this? I found it can work well with some precaution needed: At about 180F, the 8x10" print needs to sit in there for about 5 minutes to dry. The paper comes out wrinkle-free and only curls a bit when laid down flat on a surface (not an issue since I dry mount it afterwards anyway). What I found is that it is not a good idea to dry the paper between the two paper boards inside the dryer for the full length (5 minutes) of drying time - some part of the print paper tends then to stick too tightly to the paper boards. This can be avoided by opening the drying after a minute of so and moving the print before it adheres. 

Did anybody have some better advice here - I only find information online about the dry matting itself, but nobody seems to use such dryer for actually drying silver gelatin prints. Or is this not a good idea to do, and I was just lucky that it worked?

[Michael Hiles]

I generally put prints – which are usually curled at the edges after air drying – into my press for 3-5 minutes, between medium weight normal paper. The prints do not stick, and they afterwards lie fairly flat without any edge curl. In good shape for subsequent dry mounting onto top quality mounting board. I don’t do it between dry mount board.

 

I do, however, put the board into my press for 3-5 minutes before mounting the print to drive out moisture, based on advice in the literature. I am not sure it matters, but I do it. I think it may help with the adhesion process, and it certainly doesn’t hurt.

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[Martin B]

 

I generally put prints – which are usually curled at the edges after air drying – into my press for 3-5 minutes, between medium weight normal paper. The prints do not stick, and they afterwards lie fairly flat without any edge curl. In good shape for subsequent dry mounting onto top quality mounting board. I don’t do it between dry mount board.

 

I do, however, put the board into my press for 3-5 minutes before mounting the print to drive out moisture, based on advice in the literature. I am not sure it matters, but I do it. I think it may help with the adhesion process, and it certainly doesn’t hurt.

 

 

This is exactly the advice I was looking for - so it might be better to have the prints air-dried first and then putting them in the dryer without dry mount boards! I wasn't sure if the dryer would take out the wrinkles coming from the air-drying. I will try this next time! Thanks!

Edited November 20, 2017 by Martin B

[Jeff S]

I put wet prints between two print drying screens, which were held in place by a custom built rack. The dried prints were perfectly suitable at that point for dry mounting (using a Seal press), and reasonably flat for unmounted viewing or placement in a sleeved portfolio case.

 

Jeff

[Michael Hiles]

This is exactly the advice I was looking for - so it might be better to have the prints air-dried first and then putting them in the dryer without dry mount boards! I wasn't sure if the dryer would take out the wrinkles coming from the air-drying. I will try this next time! Thanks!

 

Yes. I process for 2 minutes in Ilford Rapid Fixer (9:1), wash for a while (generally 10 - 30 minutes), then 10 minutes in Ilford's hypo clearing agent, then wash for generally 30 minutes. My washes are much longer than required, only for my convenience.

 

I then use a window washing squeege to get rid of excess water, and then place prints face up on drying screens - usually for overnight. The result is a dry print with the curls I mentioned.

 

I have never put wet prints into the dry mount press. My dry prints go in before mounting to drive out any excess moisture, but not to dry prints.

 

For what it is worth, I dry test strips in the microwave to see what the story will be for a dry print (thinking about the dreaded dry-down).

 

Jeff's drying approach sounds more effective.

[otto.f]

I only print on fibre based paper and for me there’s only one effective method to prevent curling. I put them on a glass plate, squeegee, and then glue them with 2” traditional paper tape (from the art supply shop) to the glass plate. When dry, I cut them with a stanley knife from the paper tape, which leaves about 8mm of tape on the paper. I wash the remaining tape from the glass plate with hot water for the next round.

[Martin B]

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I only print on fibre based paper and for me there’s only one effective method to prevent curling. I put them on a glass plate, squeegee, and then glue them with 2” traditional paper tape (from the art supply shop) to the glass plate. When dry, I cut them with a stanley knife from the paper tape, which leaves about 8mm of tape on the paper. I wash the remaining tape from the glass plate with hot water for the next round.

 

I tried this method with limited success. First, it requires to have enough space surrounding the print to be able to tape the paper on the glass plate. Most tapes which I tried were not water resistant and didn't glue well on the wet paper. And even if the tape adhered well in the beginning, it peeled off easily from the paper when the paper dried and started to wrinkle. To avoid it, I had to attach a second row of tape around it. I never got the fiber paper fully flat with this method. 

[Martin B]

I put wet prints between two print drying screens, which were held in place by a custom built rack. The dried prints were perfectly suitable at that point for dry mounting (using a Seal press), and reasonably flat for unmounted viewing or placement in a sleeved portfolio case.

 

Jeff

 

"Custom built rack" - how does it look? Like a press? I tried something similar by adding several heavy books on the the print between layers of paper to absorb the water. Result always was a curly one  - with your rack to apply even more pressure it might work. 

[Jeff S]

I prefer to have air hitting both sides of the fibre paper, which is what the dual screen approach provides. Tight enough to prevent curling, yet open enough to air out thoroughly and quickly, Rotating prints during drying also can't hurt.

 

Jeff

[Martin B]

As this discussion goes, drying wet fiber prints is not an easy thing, and it is never clearly shown how to do it and what kind of result is obtained in any description or video tutorial out there. You would think it is simple, but currently this is still one of my biggest unknowns of how to do this well regarding my whole workflow. So far the best result I got was from directly drying the wet fiber prints in my dry mount press (which I didn't find described as solution anywhere) - but Michael's advice in post #2 is likely the best. Since fiber-based printing was the most common way of printing in the past, I am surprised that there is not more written about how to dry wrinkle-free this kind of fiber prints. 

Edited November 20, 2017 by Martin B

[Jeff S]

"Custom built rack" - how does it look? Like a press? I tried something similar by adding several heavy books on the the print between layers of paper to absorb the water. Result always was a curly one - with your rack to apply even more pressure it might work.

Not a press, since there's still some space for air. Imagine a rectangular window screen type mesh (but high quality), about 2x3 feet, surrounded by a plastic or similar frame, then stacked together so one frame lies in top of the other. The thickness of the frame dictates the space available between the screens for prints. I bought mine from Zone VI and built a wooden rack with grooves to slide in screens (held flat, parallel to floor).

 

Jeff

Edited November 20, 2017 by Jeff S

[Martin B]

Not a press, since there's still some space for air. Imagine a rectangular window screen type mesh (but high quality), about 2x3 feet, surrounded by a plastic or similar frame, then stacked together so one frame lies in top of the other. The thickness of the frame dictates the space available between the screens for prints. I bought mine from Zone VI and built a wooden rack with grooves to slide in screens (held flat, parallel to floor).

 

Jeff

 

Ok, thanks, I can see how this works now - but I rather would like to avoid building another device just for this. 

[Jeff S]

Ok, thanks, I can see how this works now - but I rather would like to avoid building another device just for this.

You can probably find the screens (framed) and stack them without a rack.

 

Jeff

Edited November 20, 2017 by Jeff S

[otto.f]

I tried this method with limited success. First, it requires to have enough space surrounding the print to be able to tape the paper on the glass plate. Most tapes which I tried were not water resistant and didn't glue well on the wet paper. And even if the tape adhered well in the beginning, it peeled off easily from the paper when the paper dried and started to wrinkle. To avoid it, I had to attach a second row of tape around it. I never got the fiber paper fully flat with this method.

 

Yes I know what you mean, have had that too; it all depends on the right paper tape that can stand the tension.

[Martin B]

Yes I know what you mean, have had that too; it all depends on the right paper tape that can stand the tension.

 

Which one do you use and which works best? 

[otto.f]

It hasn’t even a brand name as far as I know. It is called aquarel tape: originally designed and used for aquarel paper (which has the same problem of wobbling and curling when the aquarel dries) and comes in rolls of 50m with a width of 48mm, which cost here only 5€. So you should be in a shop for painters. They come in brown/beige and in white, I use the white.

I print mostly at 40x50, so I slide a piece of 60cm over a sponge to wet the glue before attaching it to the photopaper and glass

Edited November 20, 2017 by otto.f

[pico]

This is what I use. It is certainly not for high production printers.

 

I layer air dried prints between chemically neutral blotting paper, turn it down and walk away for a day.

[M.Hilo]

Drying prints on racks is fine, drying prints by hanging them up is fine too. Remember that the warmer the space is the more the prints will curl. Most professional printers flatten the prints with the dry-mounting press. I have a Büscher 50X60 (20X24) and a Seal 210 for the sizes below that. Two things are important after pressing: 1. to put the prints between acid free blotters (cartons) for a night. So they come to rest. And 2. it is good to trim the print half a centimeter on each side . . . by doing that you decrease the tension paper has. 

[MikeN]

Hi Martin,

 

I also put my prints first after air drying into the press. What might help with your problem might be silicone paper, which would/should avoid that something adheres. It's also used for "normal" heat mounting to prevent glue to stick anywhere

 

Btw, I posted "The Print" into this forum. It's a video about my last darkroom session and includes dry mounting

 

Hometown greetings

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[Michael Hiles]

Mike,

 

What a great video. Your process and many tools are identical to mine. I just acquired an RH Designs Analyser-Pro, which I am learning and enjoying. A main envy is your ability to black out your windows so easily.

 

BTW – did you do a custom calibration of the Zone Master for your paper? I am just about to switch from Ilford Multigrade IV FB to the new “Classic”, and I suspect that a calibration for the new paper might be good or necessary. Any thoughts?

 

BTW the picture of the child is really nice.

 

Cheers,