XY/CL design vs TL design

[imants]

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But in the final analysis I preferred the modern and reduced option set for the CL, and the fact that I could have 6 user sets which allowed me to set EVERYTHING with two buttons.

 

Sounds like you need a auto camera  just dial up presets and compose

[NZDavid]

David

Canon and Nikon abandoned specific dials for Aperture and Shutter speed years ago (because it tied the user down unnecessarily). Fuji have stepped right back again, and you, and others obviously like it.

 

Leica have taken it to it's logical conclusion (first with the SL, and then with this camera). As there are no literal dials and buttons they can all be configured just as you like them . . and they can also be saved into a series of user presets - I have 5 principle ones on the SL (and the CL): daytime, nighttime, event, tracking, monochrome - each one has different ISO values and parameters, different mode (PASM) different AF setting and different drive mode setting. it's great - although of course it may be of absolutely no interest to lots of users.

 

The major part of the testing for the CL was done on a 3 week walking tour in Crete - I had the CL over one shoulder and a Fuji X-T2 over the other, because I needed to get a handle on the pros and cons. Actually, I really liked the way that everything on the Fuji was nailed to dials and buttons, what I didn't like was the huge menus with lots of silly options which somebody had asked for (so they put it in). 

 

But in the final analysis I preferred the modern and reduced option set for the CL, and the fact that I could have 6 user sets which allowed me to set EVERYTHING with two buttons. 

 

it takes all types!

all the best

 

 

 

Thanks Jono, I enjoyed your review. Isn't Crete a wonderful place to visit! 

 

I'm with John on this, I prefer simplicity and would find user presets an unnecessary extra step. What I really like about the classic M design concept is you don't have to be a computer programmer to operate it.

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[jmahto]

.....

But in the final analysis I preferred the modern and reduced option set for the CL, and the fact that I could have 6 user sets which allowed me to set EVERYTHING with two buttons. 

 

it takes all types!

all the best

 

I also like the use of presets which allows you to switch multiple settings at once for the shooting need. It is a fact of life in a modern digital camera that you will have many controls apart from simply aperture, shutterspeed and ISO. User presets are the best way to simplify camera controls (close cousin is "my menu" feature). 

 

Of course some folks (mainly M users) prefer very simple control of aperture, shutterspeed and ISO only. For them there is M already.

 

BTW, forgot to add that I enjoyed CL review.

Edited November 22, 2017 by jmahto

[LocalHero1953]

It will be interesting to see how this new interface gets on with users. The SL, TL and now CL all have different interfaces (and different, of course, from the traditional/analogue M, Q etc). I use profiles to set my common settings (normal, flash, manual....), and I'm sure I'll get used to the CL. But if Leica sees the CL as a draw for non-Leica people, I wonder how newcomers will get on with blank dials and buttons.

 

My first firmware wish, before I've even got the camera, is for an alternative TL2 interface to access the menu by touchscreen and icons - quicker and easier than scrolling through lists with dials.

Edited November 22, 2017 by LocalHero1953

[NZDavid]

...Of course some folks (mainly M users) prefer very simple control of aperture, shutterspeed and ISO only. For them there is M already....

 

 

 

 

Yes. Plus the forth vital control, focus.

 

 

...I wonder how newcomers will get on with blank dials and buttons....

 

 

I haven't used one, but isn't the Olympus OM series similar?

[imants]

It  amazes me  how with the striving for simplicity has lead to pretty complicated hardware and software dials buttons screens presets real time apertures fake time apertures etc 

[LocalHero1953]

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I haven't used one, but isn't the Olympus OM series similar?

 

I had the OMD-EM5-ii (now my wife's), and even though every button and dial had a label I found it confusing. 

I wouldn't compare the CL with other brands, but with Leica's traditional simple and intuitive (pick it up and use it) approach. I have no problem with an interface that needs a bit of understanding and setting up, as long as it is easy and quick to use thereafter, but it will be interesting to see how it goes down in a camera priced for new entrants. This is basic marketing and product positioning, though, so I am sure Leica has thought this through, even if this is the third modern flexible interface Leica has developed in recent years (plus that of the S, which I have never used).

[Paul Reading]

I am disappointed that Leica has reverted to type for the first auto-focus camera with a built in viewfinder. I was really hoping for a TL-3. Having said that the CL is growing on me but I won't buy a black one, I will wit until the launch a silver version. ( I hope green leather will be available in a built to order option).

[Kim Dahl]

Hi Jono

I know the censor in TL2 and CL is the same. But what is your opinion.

 

1. Is Leica CL better for Leica M lenses than Leica TL2 ?

 

2. If that is the case, will a firmware update do it ?

 

3. The use of Leica M depends among other things on the EVF which one is the best. Is it the one from Leica CL or Leica M ? you think :-)

 

I have TL2 and TL 35mm which is amazing. But I also have some M optics that I really love. I wil never give up M lenses.

 

I have problems with RF because of my age and vision.

 

Kim

[LocalHero1953]

 

Hi Jono

I know the censor in TL2 and CL is the same. But what is your opinion.

 

1. Is Leica CL better for Leica M lenses than Leica TL2 ?

 

2. If that is the case, will a firmware update do it ?

 

3. The use of Leica M depends among other things on the EVF which one is the best. Is it the one from Leica CL or Leica M ? you think :-)

 

I have TL2 and TL 35mm which is amazing. But I also have some M optics that I really love. I wil never give up M lenses.

 

I have problems with RF because of my age and vision.

 

Kim

 

I'm not Jono, but my response is:

1. Not in terms of IQ, and not in usability if you use the external EVF. But it is much easier to focus on the CL compared to the TL2 without the EVF.

2. A firmware update will not change my reply above.

3. The EVF in the CL is better than the one from the T/M (VF020): I haven't compared the specs, but IMO it responds faster i.e. it gives you a more immediate image, with less lag. It's not as clear as the EVF in the SL, and I don't think it responds as quickly as the SL, but I haven't checked this yet.

 

I find it very easy to use M lenses on the CL. Although you don't have automagnification with manual lenses (you get automagnification when focusing TL lenses manually), you can quickly zoom in to check focus using the right dial.

Edited November 27, 2017 by LocalHero1953

[Kim Dahl]

Hello.

Thank you for your reply. That means a lot.

I have just bought a leica TL (before CL).

I'm very fond of it but of course, a little ...

[pmendelson]

I currently have the SL and the Q, and the CL is interesting to me as a companion to the Q (I would bring the Q for 28mm, and the CL plus 11-23mm for wide angle or the TL 35mm for the 50mm FOV).  That would be a great walk-around or travel kit when I want flexibility and don't want to lug around the SL/24-90mm.

 

However, the release of the CL is making me look at the TL2 seriously as well.  The design of the TL2 is a lot more attractive to me than the CL, although I haven't used it in person.  The lack of a built-in EVF on the TL2 can certainly be seen as a major drawback, although I used the Visoflex 020 with the M10 when I had it, and I didn't hate it.  In fact, the ability to flip the Visoflex up and look down into the viewfinder is a major plus for me.  I really don't like the fact that Leica cameras do not have a flip up LCD, so the Visoflex mitigates that issue to a degree.  And I could probably live with shooting without the viewfinder in many situations as well (I am going to try this with my Q for a while and see how I like it).  On the other hand, I do find that putting the camera up to my eye/head helps stabilize the camera at lower shutter speeds.

 

Not only is the TL2 significantly cheaper than the CL, I should be able to find a used TL2 and save even more money.  Finally, and this is probably a minor point to most people, the TL can shoot slow motion video, which I like to do, while the CL cannot.

 

Anyway, I haven't made up my mind what to do, but we have a lot of interesting choices...

Edited November 29, 2017 by pmendelson

[Kim Dahl]

Hello.

I'm very happy with my TL2. It's a different camera. But you are right in getting tilt the visoflex is an advantage. I have not seen CL. But if AF speed and viewfinder on TL2 are just as good as at CL So, I prefer TL2.

1 Because charging with usb.

2 Building quality is super.

3 The way battery is on.

4 And not least the big screen at the back.

5 and 32gb ram

When I use TL / AF optics, I use the camera's camera without viewfinder very ofte.

I did not think so from the start because I'm not young and I'm raised with the old Leica RF.

I hope for a firmware update on TL2.

tl2 is a good choice

[bencychin]

Hello.

I'm very happy with my TL2. It's a different camera. But you are right in getting tilt the visoflex is an advantage. I have not seen CL. But if AF speed and viewfinder on TL2 are just as good as at CL So, I prefer TL2.

1 Because charging with usb.

2 Building quality is super.

3 The way battery is on.

4 And not least the big screen at the back.

5 and 32gb ram

When I use TL / AF optics, I use the camera's camera without viewfinder very ofte.

I did not think so from the start because I'm not young and I'm raised with the old Leica RF.

I hope for a firmware update on TL2.

tl2 is a good choice

Your wish has been granted.

There is an update on FW for TL2.

 

Christmas comes early, I suppose.