XY/CL design vs TL design

[rchrd]

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My earlier response was before you edited your post to add the second question.

 

If I could adequately define beauty, the world would beat a path to my door. But I observe, and I believe others have observed the same, that people find things beautiful that have elements of symmetry, simplicity, regularity and clarity - and these can be seen in abstracts as well as concrete objects.

 

Having stuck my neck out further than I intended, I shall beat a hasty retreat and let others argue beauty to death. I would much rather express an opinion and let others take it or leave it - I have no wish to persuade everyone that I am right and they are wrong.

 

I'm not trying to argue about the essence of beauty. Its why I added the second statement to make sure it didn't seem that way. I just wanted to see what you like and why you like it. Surely you know what you like and why you like it? I'm not going to tear into your judgments and point a finger. I just find it interesting that you compare the Leica I-A to a saucepan haha.

Edited November 13, 2017 by rchrd

[LocalHero1953]

I'm not trying to argue about the essence of beauty. Its why I added the second statement to make sure it didn't seem that way. I just wanted to see what you like and why you like it. Surely you know what you like and why you like it? I'm not going to tear into your judgments and point a finger. I just find it interesting that you compare the Leica I-A to a saucepan haha.

Sorry, but beauty is just not a concept that comes to my mind when I look at a camera. I think the Leica i-iii series were designed almost entirely with function in mind. Aesthetic notions were rather more to the fore with the M series, and I suspect it has become a far more important design criterion for Leica in the decades since then.

 

Why do I like a camera or not? Almost entirely because of its function which, for me, includes how it handles and how easy it is to use - does it do the job of being a good camera. Some characteristics contribute both to functional and aesthetic qualities: the neat lines of the M series and the TL2 series mean they are less likely to catch on straps and clothing than an SLR, but are also clear and simple. The splatter pattern of buttons on a typical Sony or Olympus etc are both messy to look at and practically confusing.

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[rchrd]

I'm a bit surprised about your statement.

in your first post you refer to the classic of the design (mies van der rohe, bauhaus, rams...) which I really adore too

 

but....I guess you know,the best of these modern classics were created after the rule....  form follows function

 

lambda.

 

 

I use the word function in pure utilitarian terms. These german designers may not always use it in that way. Dieter Rams in an interview said "Yes, form has to come after function, I can't conceive of it in any other way. There are certainly psychological functions as well, it is a matter of balancing the aesthetic content with regard to use." 

 

One of his principles for good design:

 

"Good design is aesthetic. The aesthetic quality of the product is integral to its usefulness because products we use every day affect our person and our well-being. But only well-executed products can be beautiful." 

[rchrd]

The splatter pattern of buttons on a typical Sony or Olympus etc are both messy to look at and practically confusing.

 

 

We both agree about that!!!

[mikej]

Let’s not forget how ugly the Visoflex is perched on top of the sleek TL/TL2.

Cheers,

Mike

[miro]

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Let’s not forget how ugly the Visoflex is perched on top of the sleek TL/TL2.

Cheers,

Mike

 

+1.  Most of the official pictures of the T/TL2 and lens line-up are without Visoflex, without lens hoods and without lens caps...  

 

A T/TL2 body with lens (without hoods/caps) is indeed very beautiful.

Edited November 13, 2017 by JorisV

[rchrd]

Let’s not forget how ugly the Visoflex is perched on top of the sleek TL/TL2.

Cheers,

Mike

 

 

Can't argue with this. At least it is an accessory and isn't permanently bulging out of the corner of your camera. Both the Leica Q and the Panasonic/leica d-lux avoided the bulge. If we are to believe there is no way to work around the size of the evf, then raise the top just like the M cameras. M cameras are beautiful. 

Edited November 14, 2017 by rchrd

[miro]

Leica II , first Leica with built in rangefinder 

 

 

 

Edited November 14, 2017 by miro

[willeica]

The high point of Leica elegance.

 

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Nothing since then has looked as nice. But then, a modern digital camera is just a tool for the photographer, who will probably have moved on to a new one in 3 or 4 years. What it looks like is less important than what size it is and how it handles.

 

Will the new Leica CL/XY be admired for its looks 85 years from now?

 

William

Edited November 14, 2017 by willeica

[earleygallery]

I think it's been discussed many times but looks are important to most Leica customers, and aesthetic qualities shouldn't be lost on image makers!

 

The T/TL was a bold design and owners seem to like them a lot. The SL was another unique design albeit with a slightly retro nod to the R3.

 

This thing is a bit of a dogs dinner - an X1 with a lump and a TL/SL mount. Hopefully a fake or early design mock up.

[jaapv]

The high point of Leica elegance.

 

Black and Nickel Trio (1 of 1).jpg

 

Nothing since then has looked as nice. But then, a modern digital camera is just a tool for the photographer, who will probably have moved on to a new one in 3 or 4 years. What it looks like is less important than what size it is and how it handles.

 

Will the new Leica CL/XY be admired for its looks 85 years from now?

 

William

Will it be around 85 years from now?

[miro]

Leica M3 chrom mit Leica-Meter M, Booster und Objektiv Elmar f=5 cm 1:2,8 M39 mit M-Adapter

 

[miro]

Leica X-U

[miro]

[jaapv]

Very nice, all these old Leicas, but it will not change the appreciation - or lack thereof- of the XY. The discussion will become more interesting when we can see the camera in reality - photographs can be misleading.

In any case, a design that polarizes the opinions cannot be called bad.

[miro]

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[willeica]

Will it be around 85 years from now?

 

Probably not, but my black and nickel trio will be celebrating their 170th birthday around that time. I won't be around for the occasion, of course.

 

William

[rchrd]

It could be around in 85 years.

 

"I like the way old digital camera grain looks..." -Hipster, 2102 C.E.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica L-Mount

[rchrd]

and aesthetic qualities shouldn't be lost on image makers!

 

 

 

Exactly!