Leica 14102P lens cap

[Ivar B]

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Not long ago I sold a Noctilux 1.2/50 which came with the 14102P front lens cap. The buyer has since bought a 2nd 1.2/50 which also comes with a cap labelled 14102P but it is much thicker than the one on "mine" and it looks kind of strange on the lens.

 

The buyer was just curious as to why two caps with the same code look so different and which one is the original. I am in no doubt that the "thin" one is the regular one, and I also have 2 old 2.8/28 and an 3.4/21 2 which come with this cap also.

 

Does anybody know more about this?

 

 

 

 

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[alan mcfall]

My 50/1.2 has the shorter cap, like yours on the right.  I think it is the correct one.  I am not sure what the longer cap would fit. As you note, this 52.5mm cap also fits the 21 and 28 lenses.  Here is a brand new 14102 in the Leitz package. it is marked 14102P on the inside.

 

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B.C. ( Before computers), I listed the late lens caps that had part numbers in numerical order. From 14025 to 14221.  Probably misses all the interesting early cap with telegraph codes only.  You will have to zoom in for clarity. It was just helpful to me when I picked up a loose cap with an inside number; I could quickly see what it fit.

 

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[luigi bertolotti]

Me too have one (on an Elmarit 28 1st Wetzlar) and is the normal "slim" one (marked "14102 P 52,5 Ф") ; that item so tall is really strange....  ...usually "long cap"="long lens"... but Telyts 200 and over are out of range... have a vague hipotesis (which I can't check) about the first Apo Telyt 135... or the last Tele Elmar 135...  

 

Another very vague hipotesis.. the short lived never officially listed Elmarit 21 2,8 with 49mm filter thread...

 

(or..even other glasses like Leitz projektion lenses ? They too used to have "big" caps, iirc)

Edited November 6, 2017 by luigi bertolotti

[luigi bertolotti]

....

Another very vague hipotesis.. the short lived never officially listed Elmarit 21 2,8 with 49mm filter thread...

...

... no... diameter could even match... but I found some pictures of the above ultrarare lens... it has a barrel very similar to Elmarit 28 v3, with the two "pins" at side... probably its cap was like my 14172, with the two receptacles for pins...

 

In the catalog I checked (1976), 14102 is listed as spare cap for the 3 lenses here quoted : Elmarit 28, Super Angulon 21 3,4 and Noctilux 50 1,2.

Edited November 6, 2017 by luigi bertolotti

[michaelwj]

The deep one looks like it would be at home on a 35 or 50mm R lens. The front section seems to be deeper from the filter to the aperture?

Or maybe it was designed to go over the E48 filter on the wide angle M lenses? The shallow one falls off when an E48 filter is on the 3.4/21 SA for example.

[Ivar B]

The deep one looks like it would be at home on a 35 or 50mm R lens. The front section seems to be deeper from the filter to the aperture?

Or maybe it was designed to go over the E48 filter on the wide angle M lenses? The shallow one falls off when an E48 filter is on the 3.4/21 SA for example.

 

I don`t think it is correct that it fits an R-lens, but the suggestion that it could have something to do with filers seems reasonable. Perhaps the shallow one is indeed too shallow and could fall off if a filter is used on some wide angles.

[michaelwj]

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I don`t think it is correct that it fits an R-lens, but the suggestion that it could have something to do with filers seems reasonable. Perhaps the shallow one is indeed too shallow and could fall off if a filter is used on some wide angles.

It does fall off with an E48 filter on the 3.4/21 SA.

[luigi bertolotti]

...

Or maybe it was designed to go over the E48 filter on the wide angle M lenses? The shallow one falls off when an E48 filter is on the 3.4/21 SA for example.

This has a sense... good idea Michael : I wonder if this "deep" version did supersede the original "thin" or it was a sort of "special to order" (which would be strange for such a simple item)

Edited November 7, 2017 by luigi bertolotti

[luigi bertolotti]

It does fall off with an E48 filter on the 3.4/21 SA.

...and you make me remember that I suffered the same problem with my Elmarit 28 v3 and its 14172.. and at "M8 times" it was really annoying, being the UVIR filter mandatory, and 28 on M8 equal to a FF 35, i.e. a very frequent lens to have onto.

 

At the end, thanks to Michael' suggestion, one could draw a sort of conclusion (hipotetical, of course) :

 

- SA 21 3,4, Elmarit 28 and Noctilux 1,2 were introduced about in the same timeframe : '65-'66

- The 14102 was the cap for them all, by any evidence in the "thin" version (Ivar's Nocti and my Elmarit 28, which dates to '65)

- As above noted, the "deep" version looks odd on the Nocti.. probably also with a filter onto...

- ..but the Noctilux 1,2 was significantly shorter-lived than the 2 others : 1975 vs. 1980 (The Elmarit 28 v2 had the same front as v1 - same cap)

- so (MAYBE) after Noctilux end-of.production, Leitz did take in account the (minor) issue of cap on the 2 WAs with filter, and redesigned the 14102 : if so, the "deep" version quoted by Ivar wouldn't has been, probably, the original cap provided with the Noctilux..

 

Collateral problem about the above hipotesis :  Ivar says that the "deep" cap is marked 14102 P... iirc, Leitz abandoned the trailing letter on its codes in 1971-72... well before the end of production of Noctilux 1,2...  

Edited November 7, 2017 by luigi bertolotti

[wlaidlaw]

Isn't the thick cap the one for the back of a Telyt 400 lens head? 

 

Wilson

[luigi bertolotti]

Isn't the thick cap the one for the back of a Telyt 400 lens head? 

 

Wilson

You mean the 2 parts dismantled lens ?  Hum, tru it HAS some sort of cap... must check at home (my 400 6,8 is "fully boxed and dismantled")... but I seem to remember that those caps were without engravings... but were surely "long", indeed... 

[luigi bertolotti]

Isn't the thick cap the one for the back of a Telyt 400 lens head? 

 

Wilson

Just checked...

- When you dismantle the Telyt 400 6,8 (lenshead with slide focusing and mounting "tube" - Visoflex in my case) it's clear that the back opening of the head is larger than 52,5mm - it has a black cap, rather short - no writings

 

BUT

 

- The mounting tube is 52,5 mm in diameter (it penetrates the lenshead and is secured by a screw collar)

- My mounting tube has a black rather long cap - no writings : it is this one (picture caught on the web)

 

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- You CAN use a 14102 instead of it... it does fit... it looks "short" compared to the un-written cap

- Now... were those "intermediate" caps always been like mine and the above ? (no writings - felt-covered inner diameter) ? 

- Not necessarly... here is another picture of a Telyt I found on the Net (560 5,6 in this case - probably larger than 52,5 mm, but styled like 14102) :

 

 

... and timing matches decently with the "era of the 14102"... 400 6,8 was introduced in 1968 (iirc, it was nicknamed "Grenoble" - '68 Winter Olympics)

 

So, Wlaidlaw, your suggestion about Telyt 400 and the "long" 14102 is no-nonsense, to the least.

Edited November 8, 2017 by luigi bertolotti

[michaelwj]

Also IIRC the 1.2 Noctilux took series 8(?) filters, so it would never have a filter attached to the front body of the lens, therefore never requiring the deeper cap.

[luigi bertolotti]

Do you mean that the Nocti 1,2 did NEED the clip-on hood to accomodate series 8 filters ? No thread for a proper retaining ring ?

(I don't remember... had a Noctilux 1,2 around 25 years ago... but was without hood.. I sold it after 6-7 months for an amount in the range of 1/20th of current evaluations...  )

[michaelwj]

Do you mean that the Nocti 1,2 did NEED the clip-on hood to accomodate series 8 filters ? No thread for a proper retaining ring ?

(I don't remember... had a Noctilux 1,2 around 25 years ago... but was without hood.. I sold it after 6-7 months for an amount in the range of 1/20th of current evaluations... )

Yes, series 8 filters are larger than the lens cap in question.