Jump to new generation sl

[Leicaiste]

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really ?

Yes in my opinion.

 

[emoji6]

[Einst_Stein]

Does leica work on the new sl model?

Why? what are you looking for?

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[IkarusJohn]

The SL development started in 2012, following the release of the M(240) - it was developed from scratch, with no Leica preconceptions (unlike the M) and it was very mature on release.  At this stage, I'm sure that Leica is thinking about the SL2, but I'd be amazed if it breaks cover for another 2 years at least.

 

Leica has to work out what to do with the S system, and it's the flagship product.  I appreciate that the M is the money winner, but it is pretty much at the end of the road - it will get enhancements, but I don't think it can go much further without ditching the OVF (sacre bleu!).

 

So, while Leica fiddles about with the compact end, I would have thought the Hasselblad X1D must have them thinking.  What to do with the S?  The competition is PhaseOne, Hasselblad (H & X cameras) and the new Fuji.  Leica has a different format, but it has fabulous lenses; and more of those than Hassie.  Might we see an S mirrorless, with more MP?  I would think this would be a bold, but potentially dangerous step - while the S system is "reasonably" priced compared to the competition, it's a small market.  Most people compare the X1D with the SL system.

 

I'd think we will see more MP before too long, provided it doesn't come at a cost (image quality and usability handheld).  That will start with the S, then trickle down.  I doubt we will see IBIS...

[dvareika]

Dear all,

I am new to this forum, so mind any mistakes I might make.
I will state what my wish list for an SL2 would be:

 

1. Weight
It weights a lot!!!
Nonetheless I love how sturdy it is, maybe a new alloy / carbon fiber would make it lighter without sacrificing weight.
I had serious problems with my wrist last year, which I had to go to the physician.

 

2. Ergonomics
Related to point 1.
This camera (its handgrip) is not ergonomic at all. I am an industrial designer and know a little thing or two about this topic.

 

3. Flash philosophy
Should be more compatible, I would make it compatible to Canon socket and protocols.
It would be like open sourcing the camera only where it is needed.
Something that Apple did originally with Mac OSX with great success.
A lot of open source.
This would also help integrating high speed sync in flash with Profoto, Broncolor, Elinchrom, and others.
We are missing the boat with this one.

Making it compatible with Canon would do quickly the trick.

4. Open API to control camera through tethering
Capture One says the problem is Leica that does not have an API.
I do not know if this is the problem, but giving the world an API would open the system to the world and the problem would be from Capture One and not Leica.

 

5. Better the software connection of SL to iPad
keeps loosing the connection and for shooting in a studio it really is very unprofessional.

 

What I love
- No names in buttons except on/off
- Programability
- The quick frequent upgrades in OS
- The viewfinder resolution and dynamic range

- The vast array of lenses one can use although I have only four lenses (3 are Ms)

 

What obviously I love

(and it is the main difference)

- The lenses!

 

Thanks for the opportunity to rant!

Best,

Daniel

[LD_50]

Weight of the SL body is not really what dictates the weight during use. It’s only about 200g more than a Sony A9 or A7RIII.

 

It’s the lenses that make for a heavy system. Shoot with small adapted lenses (M for example) and the system is a lightweight.

 

As far as the grip goes, I actually like it a lot (with M lenses, 24-90, 90-280, 50SL). I am not sure how being an industrial designer leaves you with the idea that your subjective opinion of the grip is substantiated. If anything I would anticipate you recognize the grip is likely designed for some average hand size and shape (apparently within which mine falls). I’ve found the grip on cameras to be very much subjective. For example I liked the Nikon D4 grip more than the D4S even though Nikon said they reshaped it to fit a wider range of hand sizes for prolonged use.

[Guest VVJ]

while the S system is "reasonably" priced compared to the competition, it's a small market.  

 

Except that it is actually not reasonably priced compared to medium format systems with a similar number of MP...

 

The Leica S is $19K, the Hasselblad H6D-50c is $14.5K, the Hasselblad X1D-50c is $9K and the Fuji GFX 50s is $6.5K.

 

And obviously the lenses are way more expensive as well.  

 

The Leica S was reasonably priced before Hasselblad lowered its price and before the X1D and GFX 50s appeared on the market.

[wildlightphoto]

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Weight of the SL body is not really what dictates the weight during use. It’s only about 200g more than a Sony A9 or A7RIII.

 

 

Every gram matters when your wrist is in pain.

[LD_50]

If wrist pain were a concern I would choose lenses that make for a lighter system. For an SL that’s M lenses.

 

If I needed something longer or AF I would be looking at Fuji X or Olympus M43.

 

200g is negligible in comparison to the lens weight in my opinion.

[IkarusJohn]

Except that it is actually not reasonably priced compared to medium format systems with a similar number of MP...

 

The Leica S is $19K, the Hasselblad H6D-50c is $14.5K, the Hasselblad X1D-50c is $9K and the Fuji GFX 50s is $6.5K.

 

And obviously the lenses are way more expensive as well.  

 

The Leica S was reasonably priced before Hasselblad lowered its price and before the X1D and GFX 50s appeared on the market.

Yep, all true. Check the price of the entire system, and it is at the cheaper end compared to the PhaseOne. I didn’t say cheapest. I said reasonably priced.

[Guest VVJ]

Yep, all true. Check the price of the entire system, and it is at the cheaper end compared to the PhaseOne. I didn’t say cheapest. I said reasonably priced.

 

The higher end Phase One and Hasselblad are much more expensive but those systems are 100MP as well and with a larger sensor.  Hard to compare really.  

[IkarusJohn]

Well, as none of them have the same format, comparison is difficult.

 

You can look for any unique selling point or commonality you like. For me, a 6x6 sensor would make a difference. The rest? Not so much. The 35mm format is my sweetspot - lots of choice and high quality. Very high quality when compared to other formats, when taking into account choice, portability and quality.

 

Or, you can buy every format and system known to man, and then take a 4x5 field camera on holiday. Are there bad choices?

[thighslapper]

Daniel ..... most of your issues seem to relate to studio use ...... the Leica S was designed for commercial work and is more suited to this.

 

The SL was envisaged as a general high end 35mm pro-sumer camera system.

 

Leica have never been particularly bothered about 3rd party compatibility ... and if that's what you want you will have to look elsewhere.

 

Sorry about the wrist ..... but the body itself is not abnormally heavy or big compared to most of the competition, and the the overall ergonomics are fine in my opinion. 

 

As John implies above ..... no single system alone is going to satisfy all the needs of a photographer 

[wildlightphoto]

If wrist pain were a concern I would choose lenses that make for a lighter system. For an SL that’s M lenses.

 

If I needed something longer or AF I would be looking at Fuji X or Olympus M43.

 

200g is negligible in comparison to the lens weight in my opinion.

 

 

Of course you're entitled to your opinion, but SL with M lenses vs. AF with Fuji X or M43?  Apples, oranges.  Different formats.  My eyes see the difference.

 

The photographer who prefers the 35mm format and wants AF will not consider M lenses.  There are many lighter AF lenses in other systems, not so much the SL system.

 

The photographer who intends to use a particular adapted lens with either the SL or a Sony a7 or a9 will see the 200g difference in the total system weight.  In many applications every gram matters when wrist pain is a factor.

[scott kirkpatrick]

 For me, a 6x6 sensor would make a difference. The rest? Not so much. 

 

I haven't gone to shows or shops and fondled one of the current generation MF cameras with 33x44mm sensors.  Have the camera bodies shrunk down to a size that fits this tightly, so that there would not be room for 56x56mm (the size of 120 film negatives)?  If that is the case, then the barrier to 6x6 digital is only getting higher.  I have been told that just putting 100MPx into the old Hasselblad film bodies doesn't work because they are not precise enough.

[dvareika]

Daniel ..... most of your issues seem to relate to studio use ...... the Leica S was designed for commercial work and is more suited to this.

 

The SL was envisaged as a general high end 35mm pro-sumer camera system.

 

Leica have never been particularly bothered about 3rd party compatibility ... and if that's what you want you will have to look elsewhere.

 

Sorry about the wrist ..... but the body itself is not abnormally heavy or big compared to most of the competition, and the the overall ergonomics are fine in my opinion. 

 

As John implies above ..... no single system alone is going to satisfy all the needs of a photographer 

 

Dear Grumpy,

 

You are right, most of the issues I pinpointed out are related to studio use.

The point I believe is (or was), what we would as users consider a better road map as feedback to Leica.

The question I would pose is why neglect a market (studio).

 

Leica has to be profitable as a company (and to stay in business), and with a couple of conceptually simple changes, it might open a new segment for the SL.

If I were at Leica, I would sincerely consider these changes / upgrades.

 

Regarding the grip comments, sorry if I have hurt any feelings; was not the point.

I sincerely believe is the only point (hardware wise) together with weight, that might make a big impact (at least for me).

Sensor resolution and more powerful processors are the obvious road maps.

 

FYI, I came to know Leica from the photographs taken by others, and this in the end, was only a matter of the quality of the lenses.

That is to say, I bought Leica because of the lenses and their capabilities.

I am not a pro user, but I have nexus with the industry here in Uruguay, and apart from some Hasselblads, most people use Canons, and few Nikons.

 

I personally love shooting with natural available light, I will buy a Noctilux sooner or later (I am wishing for one since 2010), nonetheless, to be able to control/model light, is a whole new universe that I came to know by chance, worth learning and respecting.

 

Best,

 

Daniel

 

 

[ramarren]

I feel the same way and hope that both the SL and the Q will be long-term keepers for me. So I must be prepared for the GAS that inevitably sets in when new models are rolled out, and everyone is chattering and drooling over them.

...

Not to sound preachy about it, but my life changed dramatically when I gave up the "buying" habit and started into more "doing" ... I honestly have very little interest in new model cameras or most anything else now. I really do have most everything I ever wanted or need already, and it's much more exciting now do consider what to do with it than what to buy. Edited November 7, 2017 by ramarren

[thighslapper]

Dear Grumpy,

 

You are right, most of the issues I pinpointed out are related to studio use.

The point I believe is (or was), what we would as users consider a better road map as feedback to Leica.

The question I would pose is why neglect a market (studio).

 

Leica has to be profitable as a company (and to stay in business), and with a couple of conceptually simple changes, it might open a new segment for the SL.

If I were at Leica, I would sincerely consider these changes / upgrades.

 

Regarding the grip comments, sorry if I have hurt any feelings; was not the point.

I sincerely believe is the only point (hardware wise) together with weight, that might make a big impact (at least for me).

Sensor resolution and more powerful processors are the obvious road maps.

 

FYI, I came to know Leica from the photographs taken by others, and this in the end, was only a matter of the quality of the lenses.

That is to say, I bought Leica because of the lenses and their capabilities.

I am not a pro user, but I have nexus with the industry here in Uruguay, and apart from some Hasselblads, most people use Canons, and few Nikons.

 

I personally love shooting with natural available light, I will buy a Noctilux sooner or later (I am wishing for one since 2010), nonetheless, to be able to control/model light, is a whole new universe that I came to know by chance, worth learning and respecting.

 

Best,

 

Daniel

 

 

 Welcome to the world of Leica in distant Uruguay..... !

 

Almost all of us on the forum have offered Leica advice on their products and many have been involved in beta testing firmware ...... but ....

 

Leica does not function like most other camera companies and at times follows a very individual and often unexpected path.

 

Leica is committed to optical excellence above everything, providing functionality that doesn't impact adversely on ease of use, with an emphasis on only what is needed to achieve high quality images with no additional gimmicks or rarely used features and backwards and future compatibility with Leica products only.  They have stuck quite rigidly to this core philosophy for decades .... and in fact past ventures into more mainstream products have not been successful. 

 

Leica does occasionally pay attention to comments ...... the recent M10 is a case in point, and some SL firmware changes have been as a result of feedback. 

 

The next SL will no doubt be a little different in size/shape ...... but I wouldn't expect much ..... and any functional changes will probably be fairly modest. That's just the way Leica works. They have never had much interest in Flash and complaints about this on the forum go back years and years and apply to most cameras they have produced.

 

Leica produces superb camera and optical equipment ....... but you are buying into a niche market with an element of exclusivity that is very unlike Nikon/Fuji/Sony/Canon. 

[roofus]

For my uses that's all it lacks.

 

If it lacked a few pounds, kilograms or stone . . it would suit me just fine

[wildlightphoto]

If it lacked a few pounds, kilograms or stone . . it would suit me just fine

 

 

If you consider total weight... compared with the Sony a7-series or a9 it's about the same.  The SL is more weight in your hands, less weight in your wallet

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica L-Mount

[roofus]

If you consider total weight... compared with the Sony a7-series or a9 it's about the same.  The SL is more weight in your hands, less weight in your wallet

 

I can't argue with that!