Misaligned images on II(D) negatives

[a.noctilux]

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does that apply to both "Red" & "Black" Dial IIIf's? - an earlier comment stated red dial IIIf's & IIIg's

 

I have Ic transformed to IIIf, in the camera base, there is no hole for the prong, so no prong in the baseplate.

I have another "real IIIf Red Dial" that has hole to accept baseplate with prong.

 

I don't have IIIf BD so I can't comment.

 

In Leica Screw Mount world, I have found that "varieties are the norm" and fascinating ( since some features could be added later, but not all ...).

[schattenundlicht]

 

Here is a picture of modified baseplate (this one is for Leica III transformed to IIIf)

 

 

baseplate1.jpg

 

those rings = what I tried out, all 1mm thick (hard and soft)

the right one is soft rubber fit cut to size,

so it wouldn't fall when put in place

 

with some baseplate, glueing is necessary

just try, wind on may be stiff but after using one roll, the wind force become normal

Maybe by now I am either thick in the head or overthinking the matter...

 

The in-camera-lowest (i.e. highest when loading upside down) protrusion of the film can, by far, is not the cannister but the rewind axis. If you use a shimming ring that fits into the bottom plate closing mechanism, yet spares the rewind axis, thus averting undue friction when rewinding, then you wouldn't really alter the position of the cannister & film within the camera, would you? ::puzzled::

 

Unfortunately I am very conservative towards wasting film and the camera is currently loaded with a roll of film. I have to take some pictures urgently to give all the above ideas a hands-on with the emptied camera

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[a.noctilux]

The washer ring is to compensate the minus 1mm of modern preloaded canister (original Leitz metal canister FILCA is taller 1mm to 2mm than today's film canister ).

 

The shim is under the canister to push up the canister NOT the rewind axis.

[Doug A]

Actually, the body of a FILCA cassette is about 4mm taller than that of a new Tri-X cassette - 46mm vs 42mm. These are rough measurements but they are correct to within 0.25mm. The problem with shimming is that in both instances the opening for the film is in the center (from top to bottom) of the cassette body. That means that if a new factory loaded cassette is shimmed all the way up the film will be 2mm too high and vice versa. I confirmed this some time ago with a IIIc made in 1941. I eventually gave up and switched to using bulk loaded FILCA cassettes in my pre-IIIf Leicas. 

Edited November 6, 2017 by Doug A

[Doug A]

I should add that a friend uses factory loaded cassettes in his III and regards the sprocket holes intruding into the image as a "feature."

[schattenundlicht]

I should add that a friend uses factory loaded cassettes in his III and regards the sprocket holes intruding into the image as a "feature."

I will work on my mindset

[schattenundlicht]

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Problem solved!

Thanks to this forum, I do not have to send in the camera at all

The explanation of the Leica II (D) being manufactured for the Leitz FILCA Type B (or rather vice versa) and there being a difference in height as compared to modern single use cassettes is spot on.

Also the shimming solution suggested by TomB_tx, paulmac and a.noctilux works fine! I will post some pictures in this thread below.

In summary, I do not have to resign myself to appreciating misaligned negatives as a Barnack „feature“

Thanks everybody for their input! Jan, thanks for your offer to part with a FILCA (which in the end I will not need). Special thanks goes to Paul for supplying two cassette ends, which are the perfect shims; more on that later on.

Kind regards

Mathias
 

Edited November 13, 2017 by schattenundlicht

[schattenundlicht]

(1) iPhone foto (sorry about that) with modern cassette as is (i.e. without any shim). This image is taken halfway through the film. All ‚exposures‘ show the same amount of slant.

PS: The cloth is a bit matted, but I have decided to live with that

 

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[schattenundlicht]

(2) iPhone foto with cassette end dropped in onto the cassette container after loading and tautening the film. This image is, again, taken halfway through the film.

 

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[schattenundlicht]

(3) The perfect shim (left: cassette end) and a lesser but viable alternative (13x24 metric washer)

 

Unfortunately most modern film cassettes will be bent irreversibly when opening. Thus it will not be easy to get a pristine film can end for use as a shim. The cassette end is much lighter, sits perfectly flush with the film container and feels much more ‚atraumatic‘ than the solid washer from the hardware store. I decided against rubber because I did not want to introduce potential debris into the camera.

 

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Edited November 13, 2017 by schattenundlicht

[willeica]

 This guy in Italy produces adaptors for using modern film with older cameras for extinct film formats. I don't think that he does anything for 35mm, but he might be persuaded if you get in touch with him.

 

https://www.camerhack.it/product-category/adapters/

 

William

[schattenundlicht]

As an afterthought, one wonders how Leica could have missed selling a film can adaper (i.e. refurbished film can ends or generic washers) under the name of e.g. „FILAD“ for a mere 79.50 $

[jerzy]

Mathias,

sorry to write, but I am pretty sure that the camera will produce black stripes on negatives, see thin "hairs". Not very typical, but I have seen already on few cameras.

Stripes will be visible on fast speeds only (1/500, 1/1000) and with bright background. Looking carefully at the negatives which you posted I could not see anything, but I do not know what was exposure time.

Immediate remedation would be to cut the hairs on the edges, very carefully, with sharp knife, however I would go for replacing curtains, the process of fabric dissolving will continue. >Both curtains show the same effect, on this one it is more visible

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Edited November 13, 2017 by jerzy

[schattenundlicht]

Mathias,

sorry to write, but I am pretty sure that the camera will produce black stripes on negatives, see thin "hairs". Not very typical, but I have seen already on few cameras.

Stripes will be visible on fast speeds only (1/500, 1/1000) and with bright background. Looking carefully at the negatives which you posted I could not see anything, but I do not know what was exposure time.

Immediate remedation would be to cut the hairs on the edges, very carefully, with sharp knife, however I would go for replacing curtains, the process of fabric dissolving will continue. >Both curtains show the same effect, on this one it is more visible

1.JPG

Argh! Thanks for pointing out this flaw to me, the portents of which I propably underrated! Exchanging the curtains sounds like a rather costly business (I have no experience in this regard). This camera was not a barnyard sale, but purchased from a well known dealership, and not at a bargain. I am still under the 6 months warranty, however I do not know what their stance will be with an 85 year old camera in the absence of overt malfunction/ desintegration ...

 

Very thin stripes might not appear in highly compressed forum quality. I will give the originals a thorough scrutiny. Since the first rolls of film were 400 ASA, there should be some images with short exposure times. Next weekend I will have the time to scan one more film and have a look, whether any telltale signs can be seen that fit your description. Thanks again for your vigilance.

 

Mathias

Edited November 13, 2017 by schattenundlicht

[gbealnz]

An awesome thread, thank you all.

 

I have been "suffering" the sprocket holes in my old Model 1a, and wondered why, and more especially how to fix it.

 

I will try the shim method and possibly reload a few old brass reloadable cassettes I happen to have, assuming they are the correct "style", (how does one tell the correct cassette anyway?)

Gary

[mikemgb]

I have also just treated the sprocket holes as a feature, now though, I may sacrifice one of my vintage film cans to make a suitable shim for my III.

[wlaidlaw]

I suspect if you use modern neoprene washers, the chance of debris is very low. It is not as if the cassette is rotating on them. They are static relative to the cassette bottom, so no rubbing to produce debris. I have a selection of neoprene washers I bought to replace the rock hard agitation spindle seals on my Rondinax 35 and 60 daylight development tanks. I will experiment with those. I found some very out of date film the other day in a drawer, which I can use as posted above to check film alignment in the chamber. The last couple of films I have put through my 1934 Model III showed no misalignment, so I will leave that alone, on the basis: If it ain't broke; don't fix it. 

 

Does anyone know if Leica updated the cassette chamber size on the 0 Series replica or left it as original dimensions? 

 

Wilson

[schattenundlicht]

An awesome thread, thank you all.

 

[...] (how does one tell the correct cassette anyway?)

Gary

This is all I could find in Laney‘s book. Unfortunately no pictures there.

Mathias

 

[PS: I hope that this snippet from Laney’s „Leica Collector’s Guide“ might be considered ‚fair use‘. The book is worth purchasing in print for anybody with a more than fleeting interest in film Leicas and I would refrain from sharing a larger excerpt since the book is still available.]

 

 

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[gbealnz]

Thank you Mathias. I do have his book, and should have looked there first.

I'll dig them out and try to establish what version they see.

Gary

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Hallo,

Look here: Interesting Leica gear

[willeica]

This was discussed at length here.

 

https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/255938-filca-a-b-and-c-wheres-d/

 

William