Condenser or Diffusion Enlarger

[Guest NEIL-D-WILLIAMS]

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Question for the team;

I live in a hot climax but work in air con. I am going to be wet printing black and white prints in a darkroom. Can someone in Roughneck terms help me understand whet kind of enlarger I should get "Condenser or Diffusion" In y other thread this question came up but thought it might be worth while asking this question in its own thred as I am sure there will be lots of options.........I tried reading about it but got lost in the terminology

 

Neil

[Michael Hiles]

The usual argument centres on something called the Callier effect. In essence, collimated light as coming through a condenser does not pass through a silver negative in a linear fashion, while diffuse light does. It means that a print through a condenser enlarger will not have the same tonal values as a contact print. A print from a diffuser unit will. For large format folk (Ansel Adams etc.) this is/was a big deal.

 

On the other hand, loads of folk use condenser enlargers and make fine prints (think Leitz focomats, which are a form of condenser units).

 

I get excellent prints (in my judgment) from my focomat 1c, and how much the Callier effect is in play I don’t know.

 

Since I suspect you will want to enlarge from LF negatives, perhaps you should lean towards a diffusion unit. For light sources, I would look at the new Heiland units that have controls aimed at multigrade papers. 

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[Jeff S]

On the other hand, loads of folk use condenser enlargers and make fine prints (think Leitz focomats, which are a form of condenser units).

 

Not really all Focomats, as the V35 has a special diffuser box that better approximates condenser light...

 

http://gmpphoto.blogspot.com/2015/01/leitz-focomat-v35.html?m=1

 

BTW, Neil, you're welcome for the suggestion.

 

Jeff

Edited November 4, 2017 by Jeff S

[Guest NEIL-D-WILLIAMS]

Not really all, as the V35 has a special diffuser box that better approximates condenser light...

 

http://gmpphoto.blogspot.com/2015/01/leitz-focomat-v35.html?m=1

 

BTW, Neil, you're welcome for the suggestion.

 

Jeff

Yes mate as always thanks for the head up. The darkroom is starting to get built :)

 

The usual argument centres on something called the Callier effect. In essence, collimated light as coming through a condenser does not pass through a silver negative in a linear fashion, while diffuse light does. It means that a print through a condenser enlarger will not have the same tonal values as a contact print. A print from a diffuser unit will. For large format folk (Ansel Adams etc.) this is/was a big deal.

 

On the other hand, loads of folk use condenser enlargers and make fine prints (think Leitz focomats, which are a form of condenser units).

 

I get excellent prints (in my judgment) from my focomat 1c, and how much the Callier effect is in play I don’t know.

 

Since I suspect you will want to enlarge from LF negatives, perhaps you should lean towards a diffusion unit. For light sources, I would look at the new Heiland units that have controls aimed at multigrade papers. 

Cheers Michael...........that first paragraph had me trying to remember if we had any roughnecks that I would put my pay check on understanding that................maybe todays roughnecks but definatly not roughnecks from the past 

Im looking at Heiland with google as we speak

 

Continued TIH with 12-1/4" BHA on 5-7/8" DP from 911' to 5835' ( EOA) filling string every 15 stands.  Activated CMC prior to passing through BOP.  Note:  Held trip drill while TIH = 45 Secs.

 

 

Continued TIH with 12-1/4" BHA on 5-7/8" DP from 911' to 5835' ( EOA) filling string every 15 stands.  Activated CMC prior to passing through BOP.  Note:  Held trip drill while TIH = 45 Secs.

Neil

[djmay]

Yes mate as always thanks for the head up. The darkroom is starting to get built :)

 

Cheers Michael...........that first paragraph had me trying to remember if we had any roughnecks that I would put my pay check on understanding that................maybe todays roughnecks but definatly not roughnecks from the past 

Im looking at Heiland with google as we speak

 

Continued TIH with 12-1/4" BHA on 5-7/8" DP from 911' to 5835' ( EOA) filling string every 15 stands.  Activated CMC prior to passing through BOP.  Note:  Held trip drill while TIH = 45 Secs.

 

 

Continued TIH with 12-1/4" BHA on 5-7/8" DP from 911' to 5835' ( EOA) filling string every 15 stands.  Activated CMC prior to passing through BOP.  Note:  Held trip drill while TIH = 45 Secs.

Neil

In roughneck speak - condenser enlarger direct light makes things appear sharper and with more contrast. Stuff like dust will show up more. Diffuser makes things appear a little softer. Stuff like dust will not show up as much.

 

Bottom line, it is possible to make equally good prints with both. Diffuser is more user friendly. And also, as I mentioned in the other thread, the local heat of a condenser can cause a negative to "pop", which will ruin the print.

 

Jesse

[Guest NEIL-D-WILLIAMS]

In roughneck speak - condenser enlarger direct light makes things appear sharper and with more contrast. Stuff like dust will show up more. Diffuser makes things appear a little softer. Stuff like dust will not show up as much.

 

Bottom line, it is possible to make equally good prints with both. Diffuser is more user friendly. And also, as I mentioned in the other thread, the local heat of a condenser can cause a negative to "pop", which will ruin the print.

 

Jesse

Thjanks Jesse

Any chance in pointing me in the right direction for a 4x5 one of those........either that or just a name brand that I can serch for..........Michael mentioned the Heiland units but all I got was light bulbs not enlargers

 

neil

 

Yes mate as always thanks for the head up. The darkroom is starting to get built :)

 

Cheers Michael...........that first paragraph had me trying to remember if we had any roughnecks that I would put my pay check on understanding that................maybe todays roughnecks but definatly not roughnecks from the past 

Im looking at Heiland with google as we speak

 

Continued TIH with 12-1/4" BHA on 5-7/8" DP from 911' to 5835' ( EOA) filling string every 15 stands.  Activated CMC prior to passing through BOP.  Note:  Held trip drill while TIH = 45 Secs.

 

 

Continued TIH with 12-1/4" BHA on 5-7/8" DP from 911' to 5835' ( EOA) filling string every 15 stands.  Activated CMC prior to passing through BOP.  Note:  Held trip drill while TIH = 45 Secs.

Neil

WTF happened there.......why do you need to know what we are doing on the rig :) :)

[Jeff S]

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The Beselers can generally accommodate condensor or diffused (cold light or dichroic) heads. Pluses and minuses, and typically requiring adjustments to the rest of the print workflow. Other forums (large format, etc) have tons of discussion.

 

For cold light heads, it's good to consider timer options that can compensate for changes in light temps (similar to development timers that can compensate for changes in chemical temps over a long print session).....

 

http://www.rhdesigns.co.uk/darkroom/

 

These topics always generate debates. Great prints can be made with any of these methods (Weston's prints that now sell for hundreds of thousands were often made using bare bulbs). The key is to figure out a disciplined and consistent workflow that addresses the characteristics of each, as well as your intents.

 

Jeff

[pgk]

You might try:

 

https://www.secondhanddarkroom.co.uk

 

or

 

http://www.deveresecondhanddarkroom.com/2-enlargers-de-vere

 

which if nothing else might give you ideas about available units and prices.

 

Or you could buy an old one to do up. I paid a pittance for a DeVere 54 (1950s) which still works although the Cathomag head would frighten any electrician away. I'll replace it with an LED panel when I get around to it - cheap enough solution. Whole thing will have cost £100-200 then.

[Michael Hiles]

Heiland produces a variety of interesting bits, but not enlargers. I was thinking of their light sources and perhaps their splitgrade system (well reviewed). 

 

As you search around, don't neglect DeVere (already noted above.)

 

Also look at RH Designs (now in the hands of the Second Hand Darkroom folks in the UK). Their enlarging meters and related devices come very highly recommended. 

Edited November 4, 2017 by Michael Hiles

[Jeff S]

Also look at RH Designs (now in the hands of the Second Hand Darkroom folks in the UK). Their enlarging meters and related devices come very highly recommended.

I already gave a link, with one possible rationale. Richard is now retired, but the link includes SDS.

 

Old Zone VI products, if found used, provide similar functionality.

 

Jeff

Edited November 4, 2017 by Jeff S

[Michael Hiles]

Yes, Richard has retired, but Second Hand Darkroom still manufactures and sells their equipment under license. And Chris Woodhouse apparently answers questions and is generally helpful by email. Their Analyzer Pro looks like the best device of its kind - not cheap but not expensive compared to a lens. And much cheaper that a Heiland Split Grade system.

[Jeff S]

I know, that's why my link also has a link to Second Hand Darkrooms.

 

The link also is to RH, however, since that site better explains the products and choices, including the Analyzer Pro vs other products offered, like this explanation...

 

http://www.rhdesigns.co.uk/darkroom/html/zonemaster_ii.html

 

Jeff

Edited November 4, 2017 by Jeff S

[otto.f]

I thought you would buy the Beseler at B&H’s? If you take 45 MXT II and if you can buy it in parts as I understood from your post elsewhere, you buy it without the condenser or diffusor and buy the head from Heiland

 

http://heilandelectronic.de/led_beseler_45mxt/lang:de

 

That’s what I plan to do. I mailed Jürgen Heiland: info@heilandelectronic.de

 

and learned that I have to have their control unit on top of that, see here:

 

http://heilandelectronic.de/splitgrade

 

 

which is about 298€, so together it’s about 1850€

 

This Heiland Splitgrade has been discussed and tested by Erwin Puts and I believe it’s the easiest and fastest way to get all out of your negative, especially because of the local contrast possibilities with dodging and burning

Edited November 4, 2017 by otto.f

[Jeff S]

Heiland also makes an LED cold light source that can either be used in conjunction with the split grade system or adapted separately to various enlargers.

 

I used a different cold light source for my first 4x5 enlarger back in the 80's... and it was a Beseler MXT. Worked great with a compensating timer.

 

Jeff

[djmay]

Thjanks Jesse

Any chance in pointing me in the right direction for a 4x5 one of those........either that or just a name brand that I can serch for..........Michael mentioned the Heiland units but all I got was light bulbs not enlargers

 

neil

Neil,

 

I will give you the recipe for what I use. It is all old equipment, and it functions just like it did when it was new. You should be able to find all of it on the bay or some secondhand shops as others have mentioned.

 

1. Omega D2V enlarger. It comes with a condenser head with variable condensers for 35mm thru 4x5 negatives. I removed the condenser head and replaced it with an Aristo cold head with V54 lamp for VC papers.

2. Aristo V54 is available also at the link https://www.light-sources.com/solutions/specialty-fluorescent/products/aristo/aristo-archive/. The Aristo cold head drops into the cylinder on the D2V that formerly held the condenser unit. The V54 can also be used with Beseler enlargers.

3. To "drive" the Aristo, I use a Zone VI stabilizer. This maintains stability of the V54 head, includes enlarger switch, timer, metronome and a dry-down compensation setting.

4. A foot switch is also available for the stabilizer. I have it and never used it.

 

That is it. It can be fairly simple. It looks like the Heiland lamp assembly and controller can replace 2 and 3 above, but I have no experience with it.

 

Others can chime in with what they actually use.

 

Jesse

Edited November 4, 2017 by djmay

[TomB_tx]

I used an Omega condenser enlarger for 40 years. Picked up a Focomat V35, but with my habits the prints tend to look flat for the same contrast grade. At my age it's easier to go back to what I'm used to than to master a new technique.

[pico]

I respect Tom's observation. Personal experience is the best measure.

 

So mine is Beseler for 4x5, and Leitz Focomat IIa for true 6x9cm and 35mm.

It is just awesome for 6x9!

[Jeff S]

Focomat V35 also works a treat for 35mm. Gave mine to a friend after going digital in '09.

 

Jeff

[pico]

Focomat V35 also works a treat for 35mm. Gave mine to a friend after going digital in '09.

 

Jeff

 

Indeed! I wish my darkroom was large enough to accommodate one. I happen to have an early Valoy with extra large baseboard and long center  column - and an extra head cooling bonnet/vent to allow a 250W bulb. Bullet proof! Simple is good.

Edited November 5, 2017 by pico

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[Michael Hiles]

The Zone VI Stabilizer Jesse mentions is probably hard to find, but the rest is likely available in a variety of ways.

 

The Heiland Splitgrade system's main downside is the price (so says my banker). But everything I read tells me it performs very well.