fatihayoglu Posted November 3, 2017 Share #1 Posted November 3, 2017 (edited) Advertisement (gone after registration) Hi all, Not to carry my Nikon D750 with 20mm lens on it, I am thinking to acquire a similar lens for my M10, for architectural and landscape purposes. CV is around £800, ZEISS around £1200 and a 2nd hand good condition SEM is around £1700. I know the speed of these lenses are all different but it will be sitting on a tripod most of the time and usually it will be around f/5.6 to f/11 for the DoF purposes. In fact I can get Zeiss for £650 as a 2nd hand and also Leica Elmarit 21/2.8 for £850 So, any recommendations you would like to give, pro's and con's of these lenses. BW, Fatih Edited November 3, 2017 by fatihayoglu Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted November 3, 2017 Posted November 3, 2017 Hi fatihayoglu, Take a look here Biogon 21/2/.8 vs CV 21/1.8 vs SEM 21/3.4. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
@ndy_ellis Posted November 3, 2017 Share #2 Posted November 3, 2017 Might be worth looking on the lens part of the forum rather than the M10 part Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatihayoglu Posted November 3, 2017 Author Share #3 Posted November 3, 2017 The reason why I have put on M10 section is only because I thought the experience might be different on M10 than the experience on other cameras... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 3, 2017 Share #4 Posted November 3, 2017 Whether my response is in the wrong part of the forum or not I'll give a nod towards the CV 21mm. I recently bought this lens, well a couple of months ago, after failing to find a good usable and affordable Leica offering and I have not regretted the purchase for one second, it's a great lens. I also have the truly excellent CV 21mm Color Skopar, and frankly if you're looking for a good "travel lens" you cannot go wrong with the Color Skopar. It's small, it has roughly the same aperture as the 21mm 3.4 SEM, performs extremely well and comes in at about a quarter of the SEM price, not much not to love about that. The Skopar's bigger brother, the f1.8 is superb, some say almost as good as the Leica 21mm Summilux. Definitely worth serious consideration if you feel you need the extra stops. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatihayoglu Posted November 3, 2017 Author Share #5 Posted November 3, 2017 Alright now the list is; CV 21/4 Skopar £400 new Biogon 21/2.8 £650 used Leica 21/2.8-M £800 used CV 21/1.8 £800 new Leica 21/3.4 £1700 used Which one and why? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 3, 2017 Share #6 Posted November 3, 2017 From what I believe you want a 21mm for I'd go with the CV 21/4 Color Skopar.........I doubt that you'll be disappointed and on the M10, or any M come to that, it's compact size makes a lot of sense. If you want to go "bulky" you've always got your 750 / 20mm. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joakim Posted November 4, 2017 Share #7 Posted November 4, 2017 Advertisement (gone after registration) Do you need to use filters on the lens? I don't think the hood on the Voigländer 21/1.8 is removable so it might not be a good option then. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatihayoglu Posted November 4, 2017 Author Share #8 Posted November 4, 2017 Do you need to use filters on the lens? I don't think the hood on the Voigländer 21/1.8 is removable so it might not be a good option then. Yes I do filters so CV21/1.8 is not an option then. Thank you Joakim Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_tribble Posted November 5, 2017 Share #9 Posted November 5, 2017 Can't compare with most of the others on your list, but I can say that the SEM is a major step up from my old Leica 21 Elmarit pre-asph. Sharpness, lack of distortion and colour rendering are all outstanding IMHO (and Irwin Puts agrees http://www.imx.nl/photo/leica/lenses/styled-37/) Hope this helps... If you have the funds, I'd go for the SEM... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
exile Posted November 5, 2017 Share #10 Posted November 5, 2017 I've used the 21/2.8 ZM for about a decade now. Very flare resistant. F/2.8 is useful indoors. Very nice for landscapes f/8 to f/11. I never liked the "speed-bump" focus tab so within the first year of ownership I glued a 35 summicron finger tab over the top of it. Was sorry to do such a hack on a good lens but it has transformed the focusing experience so no regrets. Based purely on comparison to my other glass (although other focal lengths) I expect the Aspherical Leicas would be an improvement in terms of ultimate resolution and micro contrast. Having said that, the resolution and Zeiss coatings of the ZM are an upgrade on the Voigtlanders I've had and sold in the past (35/1.2 and 75/2.4). To summarize, the ZM21 has performed well enough over 10 years that I've always prioritized upgrading other focal lengths into current Leica offerings. However, I've never been 100% happy with the microcontrast and resolution compared to 35 Lux ASPH, 50 Lux ASPH, 90 elmarit-M, 40 rokkor. Having very slowly and patiently upgraded my 2 other key focal lengths, I'm now finally considering swapping it out for a Leica 21 SE or more preferably the wider 18 SE, but the complicated use of filters steers me away from the latter. Good luck with the choice. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
arno_nyhm Posted November 5, 2017 Share #11 Posted November 5, 2017 i like using the VC 21/4 Skopar on my IIIf a lot. it feels very light and is easy to handle. it outperforms any film @f=8 and above. but on the M10 it gives funny colors in the corners and and just won't become as sharp as the SEM21. sure, the SEM21 is a little heavier but it still is reasonable size and weight on the M10. What i love most on my SEM21 on the M10 is the way it renders contrasts in small details and overall. the CV21/4 just cannot keep up with that. but the again the CV21/4 cost about 10% used of what the SEM21 cost new. and the SEM21 cannot claim to be 10 times better than the CV21/4. hard to decide. oh, by the way: i did not opt for the CV21/1,8 because of the way it renders out of focus areas in the corners. due to the natural light-falloff in the corners unsharp areas tend to become "sharper" towards the corners than in the middle. this might be an avoidable problem. but i did not want to buy a highspeed lens that has Problems when used wide open and went for the SEM21. the little CV21/4 just came to me by a happy little accident and just never went away because of the low amount of money it would raise im comparison to the high performance it is capable of especially on the IIIf. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatihayoglu Posted November 5, 2017 Author Share #12 Posted November 5, 2017 I've used the 21/2.8 ZM for about a decade now. Very flare resistant. F/2.8 is useful indoors. Very nice for landscapes f/8 to f/11. I never liked the "speed-bump" focus tab so within the first year of ownership I glued a 35 summicron finger tab over the top of it. Was sorry to do such a hack on a good lens but it has transformed the focusing experience so no regrets. Based purely on comparison to my other glass (although other focal lengths) I expect the Aspherical Leicas would be an improvement in terms of ultimate resolution and micro contrast. Having said that, the resolution and Zeiss coatings of the ZM are an upgrade on the Voigtlanders I've had and sold in the past (35/1.2 and 75/2.4). To summarize, the ZM21 has performed well enough over 10 years that I've always prioritized upgrading other focal lengths into current Leica offerings. However, I've never been 100% happy with the microcontrast and resolution compared to 35 Lux ASPH, 50 Lux ASPH, 90 elmarit-M, 40 rokkor. Having very slowly and patiently upgraded my 2 other key focal lengths, I'm now finally considering swapping it out for a Leica 21 SE or more preferably the wider 18 SE, but the complicated use of filters steers me away from the latter. Good luck with the choice. Have you used ZM21 on a M10 or M240? Does it perform well in terms of colour issues? Thank you very much for your reply btw Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatihayoglu Posted November 5, 2017 Author Share #13 Posted November 5, 2017 i like using the VC 21/4 Skopar on my IIIf a lot. it feels very light and is easy to handle. it outperforms any film @f=8 and above. but on the M10 it gives funny colors in the corners and and just won't become as sharp as the SEM21. sure, the SEM21 is a little heavier but it still is reasonable size and weight on the M10. What i love most on my SEM21 on the M10 is the way it renders contrasts in small details and overall. the CV21/4 just cannot keep up with that. but the again the CV21/4 cost about 10% used of what the SEM21 cost new. and the SEM21 cannot claim to be 10 times better than the CV21/4. hard to decide. oh, by the way: i did not opt for the CV21/1,8 because of the way it renders out of focus areas in the corners. due to the natural light-falloff in the corners unsharp areas tend to become "sharper" towards the corners than in the middle. this might be an avoidable problem. but i did not want to buy a highspeed lens that has Problems when used wide open and went for the SEM21. the little CV21/4 just came to me by a happy little accident and just never went away because of the low amount of money it would raise im comparison to the high performance it is capable of especially on the IIIf. Apparently color cast can be fixed during PP so I’m trying to decide between ZM21/2.8 and CV21/4. SEM is my ultimate goal but don’t want to spend nearly £1800 for a used copy (which is not so easy to find anyway) Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pixelman Posted November 6, 2017 Share #14 Posted November 6, 2017 Apparently color cast can be fixed during PP so I’m trying to decide between ZM21/2.8 and CV21/4. SEM is my ultimate goal but don’t want to spend nearly £1800 for a used copy (which is not so easy to find anyway)i have both the CV 21 f/4 and the CZ 21 f2.8. On an M240 the corners of images from the 21 f4 have the well documented color shift. It can be sort of fixed with corner fix, but it is a lot of work. The 21 2.8 Zeiss works great on an M240. The little CV is a great lens, but I only use it with film. The CZ 21 2.8 is very sharp. I would also look at the CV 21mm 1.8, I shot a few frames with one on an M240 and it was great. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Catcher Posted November 6, 2017 Share #15 Posted November 6, 2017 Have you used ZM21 on a M10 or M240? Does it perform well in terms of colour issues? Thank you very much for your reply btw The color cast on the Voight lens (21 f/4) can be cured by coding it at a 21 2.8 ASPH in the camera. BTDT! Works fine on the M10. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatihayoglu Posted November 7, 2017 Author Share #16 Posted November 7, 2017 I guess I will choose between ZM 21/2.8 vs Leica 21/2.8 pre-ASPH (E60). Any feedback about this? The reason why not CV21/1.8 is the hood is fixed and I use step up rings for my filters, why not CV21/4 is the slowness. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PraxisPictures Posted July 11, 2018 Share #17 Posted July 11, 2018 I guess I will choose between ZM 21/2.8 vs Leica 21/2.8 pre-ASPH (E60). Any feedback about this? The reason why not CV21/1.8 is the hood is fixed and I use step up rings for my filters, why not CV21/4 is the slowness. Which did you end up getting? I'm trying to make the same decision between the ZM21/2.8 vs Leica21/2.8 pre-ASPH. I might be able to get a used Leica pre-ASPH for about half the price of a new ZM21/2.8. But my other lens is the ZM35/2 so it might make sense to stick with Zeiss? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronazle Posted July 13, 2018 Share #18 Posted July 13, 2018 My experience with the Zeiss 21mm 2.8 has been extremely positive in the M9. Shooting it as a 28mm 2.8 (11909) is about as close to perfect as you can get with in-camera correction. My other 21mm lenses are Zeiss Biogon F:4.5 (totally unusable on full frame sensors) and Color-Skopar F:4 which is by my standards, barely usable on full frame sensors. No doubt the current Leica lenses are as good or, perhaps, slightly better. Obviously, I recommend the Zeis 21mm 2.8. Regards, Ron 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean-Michel Posted July 13, 2018 Share #19 Posted July 13, 2018 I just traded my 21 Color Skopar for a WATE tri-Elmar. Nothing wrong with the Color skopar but I did get tired of fixing the edges (not all edges are similarly off and require more or less time to correct them). But it is a fine tiny lens, perfect with film, but I no longer use that. If I were not using a very wide angle lens frequently, I would have kept the VC. I have their 20 mm that I use with a Canon 5d2 and that is also rather excellent. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
swiss leica fan Posted July 13, 2018 Share #20 Posted July 13, 2018 Yes I do filters so CV21/1.8 is not an option then. Thank you Joakim The CV21/1.8 has a 58mm thread. As long as you want to use such filters I see no problem. IQ of the CV21/1.8 is very good. The only downside is that it is a little bulky. I also have the WATE which is my most frequently used lens next to the 35mm Summicron ASPH. Regards Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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