Please help me identify this Leitz franken lens!

[jaapv]

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My Elmarit has "90" on focus Mount and "90" scratched on the lenshead... dunno exactly if this means that is 90,00 or 90,9...

 

Indeed, thinking again, matching a lenshead and a focus mount with different numbers would be someway risky even using an EVF like the OP does... no problems at intermediate distances... but it' someway possible that infinity isn't achieved correctly...

Any decent technician can match a lens head to a mount.

[UliWer]

Luigi,

 

As Michael stated in post #15,

numbers are in 1/10 mm

so 90 means 9mm

 

your 90mm lens has measured focal length 89.0mm

I don’t think Luigi meant the engraving on the scale of his 90 mm Elmarit ( first version).

 

My two examples No.191.... (chrome) and 242.... (black) are engraved „00“ on the scale besides the „m“and below „feet“ or below GERMANY“ on the chrome version.

 

The chrome head has a manually scratched in „00“ on the inside, the black one „90,0“. I understand that Luigi meant this scatched digits on the inside of the head. Both have the three last digits of the serial number scratched on the inside of the focus mount.

 

So I am sure the Elmarit has a real focal length of 90.00mm.

Edited November 4, 2017 by UliWer

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[lct]

If Luigi's engraving is "90" on the focus mount, it means that the latter is made for 89mm lens heads IINW.

[gyoung]

My 90 Elmarit has 95 on the focus scale, but nothing on the lens head at all.  They have been 'together' since I bought it new and work beautifully so it must be the right 'pairing'.

The 135 Elmar has 55 on the focus scale, 50 scrached on the barrel of the lens head, and a paper label on the inside of the focus mount has the serial no on it.

 

Gerry

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[Perspectives]

What is the point of the scratched digits on the inside, are they some kind of calibration/measurement marks the technician makes whilst building the lenses?

Is this practise still used on current modern Leica lenses?

 

My Hektor135mm lens head has what looks like 819 scratched on and the non-matching focus barrel has K11(or KH or KK) and then 875, just below GERMANY next to the focus scale is 00.

Edited November 4, 2017 by Perspectives

[luigi bertolotti]

I don’t think Luigi meant the engraving on the scale of his 90 mm Elmarit ( first version).

 

My two examples No.191.... (chrome) and 242.... (black) are engraved „00“ on the scale besides the „m“and below „feet“ or below GERMANY“ on the chrome version.

 

The chrome head has a manually scratched in „00“ on the inside, the black one „90,0“. I understand that Luigi meant this scatched digits on the inside of the head. Both have the three last digits of the serial number scratched on the inside of the focus mount.

 

So I am sure the Elmarit has a real focal length of 90.00mm.

I meant indeed that "90" is both on the scale (positioned as you say) and on the lenshead (scratch is on chrome...not easy to read)  : from what I've read here (thanks) it is a 89,0 lens.

My Elmar 135 LTM, has the same sticker as Gerry's item above depicted, with s/n of the lens (is just a bit younger...1.906.952) ; curiosly, it too has  "55" engraved on  focus mount, but in a different position from Gerry's... it's between the 1,5 and 1,7 metric marks (font is very little); "55" is also scratched on the end part of the lenshead. 

Here is a photoshopping of Gerry picture to show where is "my 55".. (too lazy to take pics of my item...  )

 

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Edited November 4, 2017 by luigi bertolotti

[gyoung]

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What is the point of the scratched digits on the inside, are they some kind of calibration/measurement marks the technician makes whilst building the lenses?

Is this practise still used on current modern Leica lenses?

 

My Hektor135mm lens head has what looks like 819 scratched on and the non-matching focus barrel has K11(or KH or KK) and then 875, just below GERMANY next to the focus scale is 00.

Its the actual focal length of the lenshead, in my case 50 means 135.5mm, and needs to be matched with a focussing mount engraved 55, i.e also 135.5.  I presume the 135s were so finicky they had to be further adjusted hence mine has the focal length on the lens head to 2 places of decimals and the serial no of the 'matched' lens head on the paper label.  I've no idea what the markings on your Hektor mean, hopefully we have an expert here who can translate it!

 

Gerry

[gyoung]

I meant indeed that "90" is both on the scale (positioned as you say) and on the lenshead (scratch is on chrome...not easy to read)  : from what I've read here (thanks) it is a 89,9 lens.

My Elmar 135 LTM, has the same sticker as Gerry's item above depicted, with s/n of the lens (is just a bit younger...1.906.952) ; curiosly, it too has  "55" engraved on  focus mount, but in a different position from Gerry's... it's between the 1,5 and 1,7 metric marks (font is very little); "55" is also scratched on the end part of the lenshead. 

I think Luigi 90 on the focussing scale implies 89.0 focal length?

 

Gerry

[luigi bertolotti]

I think Luigi 90 on the focussing scale implies 89.0 focal length?

 

Gerry

Yes, sorry... I mis-typed... I meant 89.0

[UliWer]

I meant indeed that "90" is both on the scale (positioned as you say) and on the lenshead (scratch is on chrome...not easy to read)  : from what I've read here (thanks) it is a 89,9 lens.

My Elmar 135 LTM, differently from Gerry's item above depicted, has non number on the focus scale, but has the same sticker with s/n of the lens (is just a bit younger...1.906.952)

 

 

Astonishing that there are so many variants - all my older M-mount 90mm have engravings  of "00" (2x Elmarit, Tele-Elmarit - fat and Elmar 3-elements) and the heads - if one can unscrew them - have scratichngs either of "00" or "90,0".

 

My  LTM 135mm Elmar has an engraving of "55" and the head is scratched "135,5". But a single head of the Elmar I got together with the mount for the Visoflex has a scratching of "60" - so a real focal length of 136mm. (I think I got irritated once and thought my Elmar wasn't focussing correctly when I inadvertedly switched the two heads...)

[UliWer]

What is the point of the scratched digits on the inside, are they some kind of calibration/measurement marks the technician makes whilst building the lenses?

Is this practise still used on current modern Leica lenses?

 

My Hektor135mm lens head has what looks like 819 scratched on and the non-matching focus barrel has K11(or KH or KK) and then 875, just below GERMANY next to the focus scale is 00.

 

The 3-digits scratchings on the inside of the focussing mounts should be the same as the last three digits of the head's serial number. In later times they used paper stickers with the full serial numbers, but the glue for the stickers didn't last and the stickers are often lost. 

 

The scratchings on the inside of the heads indicate the real focal length e.g. "00" or "90,0" for 90mm exactly.  

 

Then there are the engravings on the outside of the focussing mount.

 

Since you could screw off the heads and even buy the heads separately these engravings and scratchings made sure that a head got its proper focussing mount or if you bought a focussing mount seperately, to ensure that it was one for the right  focal length. As we saw here there are little variants of real focal lengthes for the same type of lens.

 

I think that the letters which are also often engraved on the inside indicate the person who did the measuring of the exact focal length - though I am not sure.

 

I don't know if lens heads are still scratched or marked in some way or other on the inside today - since I don't know a lens in present production where you can screw off the head.

 

I am not sure if the engravings of the two little digits on the outside of the focussing mount are still used today. My 50mm Summilux asph. No. 406xxxx still has it: "14" (51.4mm), a  75mm Summicron (404xxxx) and a Makro-Elmar (426xxxx) don't have them. The 2-digits engraving was never used for lenses shorter than 50mm. 

Edited November 4, 2017 by UliWer

[a.noctilux]

The 3-digits scratchings on the inside of the focussing mounts should be the same as the last three digits of the head's serial number. In later times they used paper stickers with the full serial numbers, but the glue for the stickers didn't last and the stickers are often lost. 

 

The scratchings on the inside of the heads indicate the real focal length e.g. "00" or "90,0" for 90mm exactly.  

 

Then there are the engravings on the outside of the focussing mount.

 

Since you could screw off the heads and even buy the heads separately these engravings and scratchings made sure that a head got its proper focussing mount or if you bought a focussing mount seperately, to ensure that it was one for the right  focal length. As we saw here there are little variants of real focal lengthes for the same type of lens.

 

I think that the letters which are also often engraved on the inside indicate the person who did the measuring of the exact focal length - though I am not sure.

 

I don't know if lens heads are still scratched or marked in some way or other on the inside today - since I don't know a lens in present production where you can screw off the head.

 

I am not sure if the engravings of the two little digits on the outside of the focussing mount are still used today. My 50mm Summilux asph. No. 406xxxx still has it: "14" (51.4mm), a  75mm Summicron (404xxxx) and a Makro-Elmar (426xxxx) don't have them. The 2-digits engraving was never used for lenses shorter than 50mm. 

 

Some years ago, this was the case.

Marked near "m" under "feet"...

 

1999's "limited" 50 Summicron in LTM has "22" (the optical cell don't unscrew in this one).

Summicron-M 50mm "50th anniversary" don't have any.

 

My wife's Apo-Summicron-M 75mm has "53" so measured 75.3mm.

Macro-Elmar-M 90mm has "03" so 90.3mm

[luigi bertolotti]

Astonishing that there are so many variants ...

...ad libitum...  ...my Hektor 135 (1.716.952), for example, has "50" almost in the same position as the "55" Elmar 135... but not exactly the same...

 

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And differently from the Elmar, which has a clear single "55" scratched on the lenshead, the lenshead of Hektor has a "31", a "Y", and another scratch which could be a "M" but maybe also a "11" (digits attached one to the other...don't post a picture because scratch on chrome is terrible to take...  ) 

Who knows  ... btw, I have an old Summicron 90 LTM which has "76" clearly engraved on lenshead... no number on focus Mount nor relation with lens' s/n...

The Hektor 125, by contrast, has a very clear "119,5" scratched... fully consistent with the known variations of Focal of this lens (so as the "199,5" on my Telyt 200 f4)

Edited November 5, 2017 by luigi bertolotti

[rrdiaz30]

I wondered what these marking were for.  My 90mm Elmarit head also has the "90.0" engravings and the "00" on the focusing body.

 

However, my 135mm Tele-Elmar has the "55" on the lens head plus "70" and another marking that I cannot discern beside it.  I understand the "55" number matching the focusing body of which I do not have.  Any ideas on the "70" markings?

 

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Best Regards,

 

Rick

Edited July 31, 2018 by rrdiaz30