cpclee Posted October 28, 2017 Share #1 Posted October 28, 2017 Advertisement (gone after registration) My understanding is - With the SF 20, the R9 gets TTL flash with +/- 3EV flash compensation in 1/3 EV increments. ISO and aperture information are automatically communited to the flash whether or not the lens has ROM contacts - With right Metz models attached using the SCA 3502M3 adapeter, these models can do everything above plus they gain High Speed Sync Is my understanding correct? Here I’m referring to shooting film as I understand things work differently when the DMR is attached. Thanks Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
masjah Posted October 28, 2017 Share #2 Posted October 28, 2017 Not sure whether aperture info is communicated with non ROM lenses on the R9. If it is with the SF20 then it will be with the more powerful models. R9 supports HSS with suitably powerful enabled guns which use 3502 though the system is considered a bit clumsy by some (can't remember for sure but I think you have to do a test firing first). The other thing is that with ROM lenses focal length is communicated to flashguns with zoom heads. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jip Posted October 28, 2017 Share #3 Posted October 28, 2017 Aperture information in communicated with all lenses that are compatible with the Leica R8/R9 also the NON ROM lenses... since this is communicated via a CAM rather than the ROM. The ROM just delivers the focal length to the camera for auto zoom head stuff, and aperture close down delay for minimum shutter lag. I have the Leica SF-58 and it works in HSS mode on the R9 (also with DM-R). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
masjah Posted October 28, 2017 Share #4 Posted October 28, 2017 Many thanks Jip! I hesitated a bit over aperture information because I don't have any non ROM lenses to hand, and I had previously noticed one completely different idiosyncrasy, in that, if you use a non ROM lens on an R9 with a ROM 2X extender, you don't get the aperture displayed. It's as if mounting a ROM extender tells the camera to expect aperture information only electronically via the extender (even though there is a mechanical linkage on the extender) presumably because the extender automatically makes the two stop modification to the display. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cpclee Posted October 28, 2017 Author Share #5 Posted October 28, 2017 What do you mean by “aperture close down delay for minimum shutter lag”? Do you mean that the camera will let the shutter fire as soon as possible by accounting for the time it takes for the aperture to close? Thanks. And yes the SF-58 is on my radar. It will be a fully TTL compliant flash with both my R9 and SL and give both of them HSS, I think. Aperture information in communicated with all lenses that are compatible with the Leica R8/R9 also the NON ROM lenses... since this is communicated via a CAM rather than the ROM. The ROM just delivers the focal length to the camera for auto zoom head stuff, and aperture close down delay for minimum shutter lag. I have the Leica SF-58 and it works in HSS mode on the R9 (also with DM-R). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
masjah Posted October 28, 2017 Share #6 Posted October 28, 2017 What do you mean by “aperture close down delay for minimum shutter lag”? Do you mean that the camera will let the shutter fire as soon as possible by accounting for the time it takes for the aperture to close? Thanks. And yes the SF-58 is on my radar. It will be a fully TTL compliant flash with both my R9 and SL and give both of them HSS, I think. In a word, yes. The dynamics of the aperture closing to the set aperture after metering/viewing varies with every individual lens sample. For every new ROM lens, this is measured at manufacture, and programmed into the ROM chip, which in turn informs the camera. Remarkable really, and I don't know how much difference it makes in real life! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leicaiste Posted October 28, 2017 Share #7 Posted October 28, 2017 Advertisement (gone after registration) The ROM just delivers the focal length to the camera for auto zoom head stuff, and aperture close down delay for minimum shutter lag. The ROM also informed the R8 and R9 about the maximum and minimum aperture available on the lens to be displayed digitally in the viewfinder and about the real light transmission of each aperture. Each lens was measured individually at each aperture and the result was stored in the ROM. The impact of light fall off was (vignetting) was then known by the calculator of the camera to improve the exposure. This was obviously more important for slides taken at the widest apertures, and more so with Summiluxes. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebarnman Posted July 22, 2018 Share #8 Posted July 22, 2018 My understanding is - With the SF 20, the R9 gets TTL flash with +/- 3EV flash compensation in 1/3 EV increments. ISO and aperture information are automatically communited to the flash whether or not the lens has ROM contacts - With right Metz models attached using the SCA 3502M3 adapeter, these models can do everything above plus they gain High Speed Sync Is my understanding correct? Here I’m referring to shooting film as I understand things work differently when the DMR is attached. Thanks I also have a R9. What Metz models can provide HSS to the R9? And can any of them be wireless? The adapter looks interesting by the way! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jip Posted July 23, 2018 Share #9 Posted July 23, 2018 (edited) I use the Leica SF-58 and it supports HSS on the R9 I used once (have an R8 myself) and my Leica S and previously M240. Edited July 23, 2018 by jip Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebarnman Posted July 24, 2018 Share #10 Posted July 24, 2018 I use the Leica SF-58 and it supports HSS on the R9 I used once (have an R8 myself) and my Leica S and previously M240. Does the SF-58 provide a correct exposer on the subject in HSS mode, or is that only good for fill flash outdoors? Will the SF-58 do HSS and TTL at the same time? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jip Posted July 24, 2018 Share #11 Posted July 24, 2018 Does the SF-58 provide a correct exposer on the subject in HSS mode, or is that only good for fill flash outdoors? Will the SF-58 do HSS and TTL at the same time? Yes it provides correct exposure, and yes it does TTL in HSS speed mode... Basically if you go over the Sync speed it automatically does HSS. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebarnman Posted July 24, 2018 Share #12 Posted July 24, 2018 Yes it provides correct exposure, and yes it does TTL in HSS speed mode... Basically if you go over the Sync speed it automatically does HSS. Thanks! And if you don't mind, one last question about it. In HSS and TTL mode, can I set the output to be less (such as 1 and 2/3rds lower output) so it could be used as fill flash? In other words, I know the output can be set lower, but in TTL mode (whether or not it's doing HSS,) will the flash output (while the flash unit is set up on a lower power setting) still be lower even though it's set to TTL, or will it always try to get a "correct" flash exposure regardless? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jip Posted July 24, 2018 Share #13 Posted July 24, 2018 You can always use EV flash control in TTL mode so also in HSS mode... To understand the SF-58 better just check it's manual which you can find on the leica website I think... that gives you a good idea what you could achieve with the flashgun! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebarnman Posted July 27, 2018 Share #14 Posted July 27, 2018 You can always use EV flash control in TTL mode so also in HSS mode... To understand the SF-58 better just check it's manual which you can find on the leica website I think... that gives you a good idea what you could achieve with the flashgun! Actually you answered all the questions I really had about it except of course how to use the controls on the back. Thanks! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jip Posted July 27, 2018 Share #15 Posted July 27, 2018 You're welcome! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandokan Posted August 5, 2018 Share #16 Posted August 5, 2018 The only answer from Jip I am not sure about, is HSS working with DMR. Otherwise he is correct (I have the Metz flash with adaptor). With my R9/DMR; I am 90% sure that it did not work and the reason I was given was that the CCD had a different reflectance to film. However, I did not try it and have no failed exposures to confirm. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
masjah Posted August 5, 2018 Share #17 Posted August 5, 2018 The only answer from Jip I am not sure about, is HSS working with DMR. Otherwise he is correct (I have the Metz flash with adaptor). With my R9/DMR; I am 90% sure that it did not work and the reason I was given was that the CCD had a different reflectance to film. However, I did not try it and have no failed exposures to confirm. I've never had a DMR, but I've got the vaguest recollection of one being able to do some sort of TTL flash with the R9 (not the R8) because of an extra flash metering cell up near the pentaprism that was originally intended to do the HSS stuff. Whether this is still HSS I can't recall. Careful perusal of the DMR manual needed? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
masjah Posted August 5, 2018 Share #18 Posted August 5, 2018 My recollection was indeed a bit hazy. Stuart (stuny) started a thread called "Help: DMR & Flash" on 19 Sept 2007. There is indeed very limited TTL capability by means of "F" mode using a test flash, apparently both on the R8 and R9. Whether or not this extends further to HSS on the R9 I don't know. In any case it is a bit of a cludge, but then so is HSS on the R9. For non-HSS you're probably better off using the flashgun's own "A" mode. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebarnman Posted August 6, 2018 Share #19 Posted August 6, 2018 The reason I've been given as far as why the newest of the Leica flash does not work with the R8/9 and M6/7; (as far as HSS and/or TTL is concerned) is because digital sensors need a pre flash to help determine exposure when it comes to the digital Leica cameras. The film R8/9 and M6/7 don't need a pre flash that the newest flash unit provides...therefore making the newest Leica flash incompatible with the R8/9 and M6/7 when it comes to HSS and TTL. The same reason may be true with the DMR on the R8/9 when it comes to the special flash features. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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