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I need a 50: Older Cron or Voigtlander 1.5 ASPH


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#1 Dario Antonaci

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Posted 12 October 2017 - 12:36

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few weeks ago i sold my 50mm cron to get a 35mm cron ASPH for proper landacape photos and street stuff. So far so good, it does the job.
But i found out that 35mm is not exactly a good everyday lens for me, and most of all not for my style of people photography.

I‘m not sure if i should get a Summicron again (vers. 4) i think, or the Voigtlander Nokton ASPH.

The only thing that scares me about the Voigtlander is:
it‘s not a Leica lens.

I really like the bokeh and look of the images shot with the lens, but what about the sharpness?
I like sharp images. A lot... The Cron was sharp as a Hattori Hanso blade, but it‘s a lot more expesive, and max. aperture is 2.0...

#2 TomB_tx

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Posted 12 October 2017 - 14:00

I have both, as well as a few other 50s. I end up preferring images with the Summicron, even though the sharpness of the Nokton is very good. The tonality of the Summicron is more pleasing to me. I also have a Zeiss 50 f2 Planar, which I rate equal to the Summicron, but the focus action is a bit too light, so it's easy to have the focus drift off more. (Same complaint on my 50 2.5 Summarit.)



#3 Dario Antonaci

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Posted 12 October 2017 - 14:08

Thx.
You mean the Cron produces better color?
Does the Nokton focus past infinity? or does the focus ring stop at infinity?

#4 jdlaing

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Posted 12 October 2017 - 14:50

The Voigtlaander is excellent.

#5 spydrxx

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Posted 12 October 2017 - 15:10

I've had both and prefer the Summicron, merely as a function of compactness. However, I recently got a used Nockton and have been impressed with it...not the same feel as the Summicron, but still very well built, and no it doesn't focus past infinity.



#6 Ko.Fe.

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Posted 12 October 2017 - 15:30

v4 as any Cron has focus shifts if doing it with focus scale print, but not affecting most of the time in real life. I didn't test CV lens like this, but it was sharp, no glow from wide open and neutral, often pleasing in BW. On digital it has bad purple fringing wide open. I know how it is written on Internet - "it is sensor". But it is not. This lens was doing it while wide open. And non of the Leica lens I have or even old FSU lens does it on same camera.

So, bad fringing, bad (self unscrewing) hood, stiff focus and sharp to touch focus ring, made me sold this lens quick. I had Zeiss Planar by same time and sold it even quicker. Purchased v4 Cron and while it is very neutral lens it is at least as not bad in handling as Cosina made ones.

If you want less expensive lens (going to be non Leica one) some recommends Color Skopar 50 2.5.... 



#7 lct

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Posted 12 October 2017 - 16:05

Not sure to follow you about prices. Both CV 50/1.5 and Leica 50/2 v4 can be had for about 900 EUR if i'm not mistaken. If you liked the Leica there is little reason to hesitate unless you really need a faster lens. But the latter will be more bulky than the tiny Leica anyway.



#8 Ko.Fe.

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Posted 12 October 2017 - 17:38

Not sure to follow you about prices. Both CV 50/1.5 and Leica 50/2 v4 can be had for about 900 EUR if i'm not mistaken. If you liked the Leica there is little reason to hesitate unless you really need a faster lens. But the latter will be more bulky than the tiny Leica anyway.

 

LNiB CV 50 1.5 VM costs well under 900 EUR. Used CV 50 1.5 LTM costs under 500 USD. 



#9 gvaliquette

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Posted 12 October 2017 - 17:55

Did you consider the Elmar-M 50mm f2.8?  It currently sells for about $750 on Flea-Bay.  Some are ROM, but not many (mine is).  As sharp or sharper than the 'Cron in the center but drops off rapidly in the very corners.  I also have the V4 'Cron, but I usually travel with the Elmar-M (for compactness) and the C-Sonnar 50mm f1.5 (for aperture).  I have the MTFs from Leica on my computer, if you want them, PM me.

 

Guy



#10 otto.f

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Posted 12 October 2017 - 17:57

few weeks ago i sold my 50mm cron to get a 35mm cron ASPH for proper landacape photos and street stuff. So far so good, it does the job.
But i found out that 35mm is not exactly a good everyday lens for me, and most of all not for my style of people photography.
I‘m not sure if i should get a Summicron again (vers. 4) i think, or the Voigtlander Nokton ASPH.
The only thing that scares me about the Voigtlander is:
it‘s not a Leica lens.
I really like the bokeh and look of the images shot with the lens, but what about the sharpness?
I like sharp images. A lot... The Cron was sharp as a Hattori Hanso blade, but it‘s a lot more expesive, and max. aperture is 2.0...

Yes you can buy the Voigtlander, it will have its beauties. But in the end you want a Leica, this is not only what you write here but happens to the majority here. Besides, you can’t compare the Nokton with a 2.0. You can’t compare Summiluxes with Summicrons either, it’s another style mostly.
I must say that my experiences with the Summicron iv or v speak in favor of the iv. Not sure if it’s the hood, could well be, but it just has more bite. Not unimportant for B&W. But in the end I ended up with the Elmar50 collapsible, even sharper than the Summicron

Edited by otto.f, 12 October 2017 - 17:59.


#11 Dario Antonaci

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Posted 12 October 2017 - 21:31

2.8 is to slow for a 50 for me....

the voigtlander ist about 650€, a good cron about 900-1000€... a big difference if you‘re on a budget.

@Ko.Fe.
I‘m not sure we are talking about the same lens. The Nokton ASPH is well over 500 bucks...
I‘v seen the rather heavy purple fringing, but that does‘t bother me too much. I‘ts pretty easy to fix in lightroom, i remember this from my Canon DSLR days.

The Zeiss is not an option either, since i don‘t like the modern look it produces.

Technically, the Cron probably is a better lens, but i think i would have a lot of fun with f1.5... It seems to do that 3D thing pretty good

#12 TomB_tx

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Posted 12 October 2017 - 22:56

I also have the older LTM version of the Nokton 1.5, and while its aluminum body isn't as snazzy as the chrome M version, I like the handling better, and find more keeper images with it as well. It is styled more like the original 50 Summilux of 1961. They can usually be found cheaper than the M mount version.
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#13 TomB_tx

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Posted 13 October 2017 - 02:30

I have to agree with Ko.Fe. about purple fringing on the Nokton. You can notice it easily in high contrast situations wide open. Stop down even to f2 and reduces, but is still noticeable. I did a lot of comparisons tonight with my Nokton 1.5 M and a Summicron v3, Planar ZM, and Summarit 2.5. With all lenses at f2 (or 2.5 for the Summarit), the bright blue fringe of the Nokton was the most obvious and distracting. The Planar and Summicron were about equal, with a slight, narrower pink-red fringe in the same high contrast area. The 2.5 was the least, but I didn't stop the others down that far.
I also tried the same comparison on an A7 body, focusing magnified in the EVF in case the lenses focused differently on my M9 (sensor just replaced). Results on the A7 were the same.
I suspect the blue fringe is also there in lower contrast images, just faint enough that I can't identify it, but sumliminally makes the images less appealing to me

#14 spydrxx

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Posted 13 October 2017 - 06:09

I should clarify - my Nokton is the LTM version...I researched both the LTM and M mounts and the LTM won our, great for me as I have several Barnacks in the stable. Can't comment on the fringing as I've only used it for B&W so far.



#15 wattsy

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Posted 13 October 2017 - 06:53

2.8 is to slow for a 50 for me....

I‘v seen the rather heavy purple fringing, but that does‘t bother me too much. I‘ts pretty easy to fix in lightroom, i remember this from my Canon DSLR days.

The Zeiss is not an option either, since i don‘t like the modern look it produces.

Technically, the Cron probably is a better lens, but i think i would have a lot of fun with f1.5... It seems to do that 3D thing pretty good

 

 

I'm not sure what you are asking? You seem to have all the answers already.


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#16 romanus53

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Posted 13 October 2017 - 08:01

If you need the speed get the Nokton, otherwise the Summicron will make it. May I suggest the 1st or 2nd Version (in good condition of course)? Compact if you choose the collapsible,  high Resolution if you opt for the rigid, both have character which can add to people-photography.



#17 cp995

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Posted 13 October 2017 - 09:30

Had the Summicron 50 Version 4 but sold it.

It was sharp, yes!

But sharpness is not all I need; I was missing some kind of "character".

Ended up in buying a Zeiss C-Sonnar 1.5/50 ZM which is very sharp slightly stopped down and has a creamy bokeh.

 


Chris


#18 lct

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Posted 13 October 2017 - 09:48

Ended up in buying a Zeiss C-Sonnar 1.5/50 ZM which is very sharp slightly stopped down and has a creamy bokeh.

 

Great lens indeed but rather soft at f/1.5 (fortunately for me) and suffering from focus shift a lot. Not a problem on mirrorless cameras though. It is my favorite 50 for portraits and soft closeups on the A7s mod. I would advise it to the OP if he/she intends to use it on a mirrorless camera.



#19 Ko.Fe.

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Posted 13 October 2017 - 13:40

2.8 is to slow for a 50 for me....

the voigtlander ist about 650€, a good cron about 900-1000€... a big difference if you‘re on a budget.

@Ko.Fe.
I‘m not sure we are talking about the same lens. The Nokton ASPH is well over 500 bucks...
I‘v seen the rather heavy purple fringing, but that does‘t bother me too much. I‘ts pretty easy to fix in lightroom, i remember this from my Canon DSLR days.

The Zeiss is not an option either, since i don‘t like the modern look it produces.

Technically, the Cron probably is a better lens, but i think i would have a lot of fun with f1.5... It seems to do that 3D thing pretty good

 

I'll try it one more time. :)

 

Nokton ASPH 50 1.5 exists in two versions. Nokton ASPH 50 1.5 LTM (first version). It is under 500 USD used. Then, Nokton ASPH 50 1.5 VM came (second version). It is above 500 USD used. Optically first and second versions are close, if not the same. First version is bigger, but with normal focus ring. Second one is less big, but with sharp edged focus ring.

 

I had second version and Planar by same time, plus Rigid. Zeiss and CV were both modern in the look they produced. Zeiss (Planar) is known better for 3D images look. Rigid was most pleasing in rendering on digital M among all three 50mm lenses I have by same time. Sharp and with Leica rendering in 100% zoom, no color fringing and lovely colors. v4 Cron I have now is not like the Rigid. It is close to CV and Zeiss. Very neutral on digital and film, sharp.


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#20 pixelman

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Posted 14 October 2017 - 07:53

I also have the older LTM version of the Nokton 1.5, and while its aluminum body isn't as snazzy as the chrome M version, I like the handling better, and find more keeper images with it as well. It is styled more like the original 50 Summilux of 1961. They can usually be found cheaper than the M mount version.

I’ve also had good luck with the LTM Nokton. Use care and inspect the internals with a flashlight before purchasing as some copies have haze that can be tough or impossible to remove. There is also a lot to be said for a good copy of the V3 ‘cron. I have one that I’ve had for years and it is almost as good as my 50 lux (it needed a CLA recently, but it cleaned up well). I’m not as experienced with the Zeiss 50mm f2,but I have friends who love that lens too.


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Edited by pixelman, 14 October 2017 - 07:54.



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