50 lux vs 50 apo

[almoore]

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I'm talking about actual images. The difference in actual images between lenses of this class is irrelevant. You are comparing excellent lenses. Both will deliver superb results. Is one simply more superb than the other. Does this genuinely matter in practice? I think not.

Exactly. Leica lenses have been good enough for decades.

 

The cult of the 'reference lens' has very little to do with photography.

[M11 for me]

Exactly. Leica lenses have been good enough for decades.

 

The cult of the 'reference lens' has very little to do with photography.

 

What most people do with their Leica has little to do with photography 

 

Very often the Leica friends like to have simply the nicest and the most valuable technical item to make photographs with (like myself). The M is small and beautiful. And as a matter of fact the Leica lenses are NOT the best on the market (see e.g. LENSCORE). They are very good but not the best (on paper of course). If one wants to have the best (measured data on paper) and has the money do do so it is a good idea to buy the APO       

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[exile]

My advice to the OP is this:

1) if you are a keen amateur, buy whatever makes you happiest. Everyone here is in full agreement that both are truely excellent lenses. Most people have an opinion as to which may be better suited for certain circumstances but your own is the only one that matters when you are investing this much money.

2) if you sell images, you can think of the APO 'cron as approaching medium format standards of resolution. That is to say you will likely only achieve meaningful image improvement over the cheaper 50lux ASPH by mounting on a tripod and/or using flash AND employing flawless technique and your images are sold for display at very large print sizes. In other words, you should be employing techniques used by lens testers to demonstrate the marginal gains we are talking about here.

3) if you frequently shoot hand-held, do not control or modify the light (including strong contra jour) and want the ability to isolate subjects at slightly longer distances, you will benefit from the extra stop and (supposed) reduced lens flare of the 50lux.

Good luck with the choice. Try before you buy. Re-read (1) above.

Edited October 12, 2017 by exile

[pgk]

My advice to the OP is this:

1) if you are a keen amateur, buy whatever makes you happiest. Everyone here is in full agreement that both are truely excellent lenses. Most people have an opinion as to which may be better suited for certain circumstances but your own is the only one that matters when you are investing this much money.

2) if you sell images, you can think of the APO 'cron as approaching medium format standards of resolution. That is to say you will likely only achieve meaningful image improvement over the cheaper 50lux ASPH by mounting on a tripod and/or using flash AND employing flawless technique and your images are sold for display at very large print sizes. In other words, you should be employing techniques used by lens testers to demonstrate the marginal gains we are talking about here.

3) if you frequently shoot hand-held, do not control or modify the light (including strong contra jour) and want the ability to isolate subjects at slightly longer distances, you will benefit from the extra stop and (supposed) reduced lens flare of the 50lux.

Good luck with the choice. Try before you buy. Re-read (1) above.

 

Whilst I agree with 1., point 2 is another 'old wive's tale' which rolls out on the forum with monotonous regularity. It is perfectly possible to get technically immaculate images with a hand held camera. Believe me on this, I shoot from boats and no tripod on earth works on them!

[lct]

I shoot from boats and no tripod on earth works on them!

 

It's just that sailors don't have tremor. It is a well known fact.

 

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[exile]

.., point 2 is another 'old wive's tale' which rolls out on the forum with monotonous regularity. It is perfectly possible to get technically immaculate images with a hand held camera. Believe me on this, I shoot from boats and no tripod on earth works on them!

I've shot from zodiacs at full throttle, sedate ferries, 4-person aeroplanes, helicopters, cars and bicycles. In each case my images had interesting content but were not technically immaculate compared to what I know is achievable with the setup. In my part of the world, shutter speed in the thousandths of a second are often only achieved in harsh contrasty midday light or by bumping up the ISO, which as good as the M10 is, still degraded image quality.

Stable sooting from boats is not a new problem and I agree there are no easy solutions; see this very interesting and informative thread from artists with the highest possible demands who are actively seeking stabilization solutions: http://www.reduser.net/forum/archive/index.php/t-6363.html

[FeralCoton]

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BTW, are you sure you are a 50 photographer? If not, try the Elmar50 for a while. This is an astounding lens for its price and sometimes I think: where is that wonderful 5000$ difference with the APO? I swapped my 50lux asph for this Elmar50 years ago and with no regrets. I’m happy that I got rid of this tumbling forward of the body when put on the table with the 50lux on it, hated that.

Do you need edge to edge sharpness on a 50, or would that be more important for 28 or 35?

I prefer 50, tho my 35 cron is quite nice. I thought the 50 cron I had was wonderful. I like the lux a bit more but get tired of the weight. (I complain about weight now after switching from canon...)

 

 

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[otto.f]

I prefer 50, tho my 35 cron is quite nice. I thought the 50 cron I had was wonderful. I like the lux a bit more but get tired of the weight. (I complain about weight now after switching from canon...)

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That, its weight given its volume, was my third reason to sell it, the other two being the body kicking down when placed on the table and the fact that in digital photography I could not replicate the rendering of colour I was used to on my M7.

However I do not fall over the weight of my 35FLE, remarkably enough.

In your case, being a 50 photographer, I might buy the 50APO, just for the ergonomics and the bo-keh. From what I’ve seen it’s the first lens Karbe designed with a real nice, traditional Leica bo-keh. I could leave my 75lux and 90APO at home and crop a lot with that IQ, I presume

[Exodies]

<snip>in digital photography I could not replicate the rendering of colour I was used to on my M7.

<snip>

Is there no way to use a colour checker passport shot with your M7 as the target end result of a digital camera calibration (instead of the digital representation of the passport normally used)? Perhaps the software is missing.

[M11 for me]

I read such a lot about colour rendering of this or that lens. I think it is true that the colours are nicer than with my Canon in a lot of cases but not all the time. Further in most cases in Lightroom I can play around with the colours to match the Canon colours to the Leica colours anyway (same perspective and comparable focal length in both cams). Further in most cases I work on the Leica DNGs anyway in LR: I am a DNG shooter. An example: I came back from south of France recently. Light was quit bright. In all my DNGs I had to adapt the white balance in lightroom: the ted coulour was clearly missing. That was now Leica . . .

 

Still to make it clear I much prefer to travel with my new M10.

[Stealth3kpl]

 just for the ergonomics and the bo-keh. From what I’ve seen it’s the first lens Karbe designed with a real nice, traditional Leica bo-keh.

 

Does anyone have any examples?

Pete

[Jeff S]

I prefer the ergonomics of my Summilux ASPH to the APO, which I rented for comparison. The APO has a loose aperture ring (typical it seems for recent lenses), and a focus ring that is not fully knurled and is cramped against the aperture ring, both compromises for the sake of compactness. Superb optically, though...but so is the Summilux.

 

Jeff

[Reciprocity]

I prefer the ergonomics of my Summilux ASPH to the APO, which I rented for comparison. 

 

 

Anymore, when I really want to see what a lens or camera can do, I just rent it.

 

Reason being is that I have a specific style of light and content in which I like to work and have spent far too many hours on the web looking for samples that are in this style and usually come up short. 

 

I'm all set on 50mm lenses at the moment but the 50 APO intrigues me, people rave about it, it costs an absurd amount of money for a 50/2 so I am genuinely curious. I suppose I will rent it when I have a shoot lined up that will really show me what it is made of, certainly not comparison or test style photos but images of genuine substance that stand on their own regardless of what lens is used.

 

I feel bad for the guy who posted the flower photo, it was about as unfortunate an example one could possibly imagine in trying to convince people of the value of a $7,800 50mm lens. 

 

It's great in this day and age we can rent such marvels, I'll line it up and see what it is all about.

Edited October 15, 2017 by Reciprocity

[otto.f]

Is there no way to use a colour checker passport shot with your M7 as the target end result of a digital camera calibration (instead of the digital representation of the passport normally used)? Perhaps the software is missing.

That would be the passport of the film used, I suppose you mean. Nice idea. I’ll have a look in the NIK software if they do that with color films like in Silver Efex Pro for B&W films

[otto.f]

Does anyone have any examples?

Pete

Lots of them in the forum and flickr should have a page I presume

[NB23]

It's all about the Velouté.

 

Velouté feeling

Velouté state of mind

Velouté superior

Velouté crème de la crème.

[A miller]

Hands down my favorite Leica 50mm is the dual range summicron.  I just can't take it off of my M3.  Its rendering is so satisfying that I am selling my 50mm lux asph.  I wish I never bought the lux asph.  

I can't speak for the APO b/c I have never owned or used one.  But the price point just screams "come and get me sucker!"

 

Disclaimer:  I shoot only film.

[Jeff S]

For those not familiar with the rigid or dual range Summicrons....

 

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MEzY21n26DY

 

Jeff

[01af]

I feel bad for the guy who posted the flower photo, it was about as unfortunate an example one could possibly imagine in trying to convince people of the value of a $7,800 50 mm lens.

It's impossible to convince anyone of the value of a $7,800 50 mm lens via the Internet. Either you convince yourself by handling it with your own hands and seeing with your own eyes ... or you'll never grasp why someone would possibly spend such an amount on a moderately fast standard lens.

 

So ... this whole thread is futile.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[Exodies]

It's impossible to convince anyone of the value of a $7,800 50 mm lens via the Internet. Either you convince yourself by handling it with your own hands and seeing with your own eyes ... or you'll never grasp why someone would possibly spend such an amount on a moderately fast standard lens.

 

So ... this whole thread is futile.

Unlike life, the universe and everything?