90 apo vs Otus 85mm... buyers remorse

[Csacwp]

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I finally made a decision and got the 90 apo, and it is a beautiful lens, but tonight I realized that for the same price I could have gotten the Otus 85mm 1.4. I've never tried the Otus, but the images I've seen from it look superior to the 90 apo. I'm shooting on the SL, so the Otus should work fine... should I return the 90 apo and get the Otus, or are there reasons to keep it other than its smaller size?

[michaelwj]

It's also rangefinder coupled so you can use it on an M. Otherwise, it's smaller and lighter but slower.

As for optical performance, we can argue forever...

 

I'd take the 90, as I value small, light, and RF coupling.

Edited October 4, 2017 by michaelwj

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[Csacwp]

Ok, fair enough about the RF coupling, although on the M I'd still probably focus it with the EVF.

 

Does the Otus have a pleasant rendering? More micro contrast/resolution? Better color? The longer focus throw makes critical focusing easier.

[John Black]

The 85mm Otus vs 90 APO M are very different sizes / weight classes.  Otus 85mm weighs over 2X more than the 90mm APO.  The Otus is significantly longer so it'll feel nose heavy.  It needs a thick adapter, so more weight and an increase nose heavy feel.  The Novoflex / Canon EF adapter had some quirks.  It works, but there is definitely room for improvement.

 

 

I had the 55mm Otus briefly with the SL, the Otus' stay was short lived.  The 85mm Otus is even bigger... so...  

[Vec]

I've not shot the Otus... but I can say that you can focus the 90 f/2 if you take care. Even wide open if I take my time I'm hitting ~ 3/4 of my shots where I wanted to focus.

 

The size is tiny in comparison... and the lens I have with me is way better than the one I've left at home because it's too big or heavy.

[otho]

To my knowledge, APO 90 asph. deliver similar performance (e.g. sharpness) in comparison with Otus 85.

 

APO 90 testing on M-P (24 MP sensor):

https://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2472434,00.asp

Otus 85 on Nikon D810 (36 MP sensor):

https://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2467429,00.asp

Edited October 4, 2017 by otho

[NB23]

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Let's do it this way:

 

Send me all your equipment and let me use it. Forever.

In exchange I'll give you the right to live vicariously through my images.

 

If I'm way off with my offer, please excuse me. I never quite understood these "please decide for me" posts.

[Jared]

What are you worried you won’t be able to get with the Summicron that you could get with the Otus? A narrower depth of field? Better out of focus rendition? Better colors? Sharper? What is the specific concern with the Summicron?

 

We all seem to obsess—me included—over getting the best/most/ultra/uber version of whatever, but nine times out of ten it’s splitting hairs that won’t affect the final print at all, and certainly has little to do with the quality of a photograph. It’s just hard going around thinking we could have had something “better” for the same money.

 

Here is what I would recommend. Assume, for sake of argument, that the Otus would be a tad bit sharper, and that the difference would be visible with a large print. Which do you value more? The extra pop in the image, or the smaller/lighter handling of the Summicron? If the answer is the extra pop, I’d return the Summicron now and either get the Otus or wait to see what the native SL 90 is like. Then you could have AF, too.

 

As things stand you will always wonder, “what if...”. That’s not a good place to be. Personally, I don’t even know if the Otus has an edge in sharpness, but I would expect it to. Zeiss disn’t Have to compromise on weight, number of elements, etc..

[ocean2059]

I think they are very difference lenses for different applications.  For street photography, the 90 APO is very compact and has excellent performance all around. For pure technical performance, Otus is better.  But it's a very big heavy lens and best to fit with an DSLR. I have both but I use the 90APO on my rangefinder bodies a lot more than Otus on my D4s. 

[tom0511]

I would get rid of the 90 APO and get a 75 or 90 Summicron SL as soon as they are available.

SO you gain AF and weather sealing.

[harryzet]

100 years nobody had an otus and there were still great pictures made. but there are photographers and there are fondlers

[Jeff S]

If you can't make fine photographs, and prints, using any of this quality gear, then you have bigger unanswered concerns.

 

But the only way to directly answer your question is for you to try the options, incorporate them into your own process and workflow, and judge based on your own tastes and preferences.

 

Otherwise just GAS and wasted energy.

 

Jeff

[UliWer]

It‘s funny to read that the 90mm Summicron Apo. Asph. was a „very compact“, „tiny“, small and light lens. Before the times of SL, Otus et.al. it was always looked upon as too big, too heavy with a focus throw much too long...

 

Looks as if we are approaching a new Brobdingnag age, where it‘s necessary to be great, huge, and photographing bigly to be recognized.

 

I think this won’t last. As soon as people learn they have to carry the burden (1200g for the Otus) they will remember lighter times.

[ZHNL]

At infinity 90APO will give OTUS85 a run for sharpness at same aperture though I don't think it has the same level of CA correction.

 

At close distance, 90APO has dog performance. And OTUS 85 has way better Boekh IMHO but it is a brick, huge and heavy.

 

90APO is not a small lens by M standard but the performance/weight ratio is right up there.

 

I have 90APO and had 85 OTUS.

[onasj]

Having been a Nikon shooter (mostly the D800E and D810), I've had the pleasure of shooting Zeiss Otus and Sigma Art lenses.  First, if you really prioritize image quality and don't mind the bulk, I would suggest the Sigma Art 85/1.4 over the Otus.

 

But to regret buying the 90 APO for the Otus (or any top-quality prime DSLR lens) is really like regretting the purchase of a motorcycle instead of a boat.  They are really quite different in many, many fundamental aspects important to photography. Ironically, in my opinion these lenses are more similar in image quality than they are in any other important respect (size, weight, focusing options, body compatibility, handling, etc.).

[ZHNL]

Having been a Nikon shooter (mostly the D800E and D810), I've had the pleasure of shooting Zeiss Otus and Sigma Art lenses. First, if you really prioritize image quality and don't mind the bulk, I would suggest the Sigma Art 85/1.4 over the Otus.

 

But to regret buying the 90 APO for the Otus (or any top-quality prime DSLR lens) is really like regretting the purchase of a motorcycle instead of a boat. They are really quite different in many, many fundamental aspects important to photography. Ironically, in my opinion these lenses are more similar in image quality than they are in any other important respect (size, weight, focusing options, body compatibility, handling, etc.).

L

 

I have 85 art on D850. It is a great lens but not OTUS great. CA is quite high for sigma and it(CA)degrade acute of the detail. It has very sharp corner even WO though, the corner sharpness at f1.4 of sigma is rare as OTUS.

[michaelwj]

It‘s funny to read that the 90mm Summicron Apo. Asph. was a „very compact“, „tiny“, small and light lens. Before the times of SL, Otus et.al. it was always looked upon as too big, too heavy with a focus throw much too long...

 

Looks as if we are approaching a new Brobdingnag age, where it‘s necessary to be great, huge, and photographing bigly to be recognized.

 

I think this won’t last. As soon as people learn they have to carry the burden (1200g for the Otus) they will remember lighter times.

 

 

Yeah, it's longer and heavier than the 2/85 Nikkor (same diameter). The Nikor is actually the same length (but larger diameter) as the "tiny" tele-elmarit-M.

 

Do we get accustomed to 'bigger' as time moves on?

I would have thought I'm a large person at 188cm and 80kg, but according to my clothes I'm actually medium, and increasingly I'm small...

[onasj]

L

I have 85 art on D850. It is a great lens but not OTUS great. CA is quite high for sigma and it(CA)degrade acute of the detail. It has very sharp corner even WO though, the corner sharpness at f1.4 of sigma is rare as OTUS.

My experience is consistent with that of Lenstip: that my copy of the 85 Art is at least as sharp with very low CA as the Otus. The rendering is slightly different, less warm to my eye, but the differences are small.

https://www.lenstip.com/491.4-Lens_review-Sigma_A_85_mm_f_1.4_DG_HSM_Image_resolution.html

 

And the Art is autofocus...

And can be extensively user-calibrated with the Sigma dock...

And three times less expensive!

[Csacwp]

At infinity 90APO will give OTUS85 a run for sharpness at same aperture though I don't think it has the same level of CA correction.

 

At close distance, 90APO has dog performance. And OTUS 85 has way better Boekh IMHO but it is a brick, huge and heavy.

 

90APO is not a small lens by M standard but the performance/weight ratio is right up there.

 

I have 90APO and had 85 OTUS.

How was it a dog up close? Mine seems nearly as sharp as my 50 apo wide open up close, but only if you absolutely nail the focus. If you don't, the sharpness is more on par with the 35mm Summicron ASPH wide open.

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[ZHNL]

How was it a dog up close? Mine seems nearly as sharp as my 50 apo wide open up close, but only if you absolutely nail the focus. If you don't, the sharpness is more on par with the 35mm Summicron ASPH wide open.

I handled multiple copy of 90APO, I haven't seen a single image within 2M sharpness deserve its reputation yet. Do you mind post a example or link of image to show that? I am not talking about focus issue. Modern M you can always focus LV if in doubt. Without close focus element (FLE), the lens performance degrade with closer distance shooting quite dramatically.

 

The 75APO has floating element design to cover close focus distance. The same as 50mm summilux M, even with that, 50lux has degraded performance than its infinity but 90APO has nothing special at close distance to my eyes. At infinity though, it is one of best in M line even with today's standard.

Edited October 5, 2017 by ZHNL