Sensor replacement and market impact

[Deliberate1]

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I have read with interest the potential "collectibility" of M9's given the qualities of the CCD sensor vs. subsequent iterations with CMOS tech. And I wonder how the sensor issue will affect the market as time passes. Perhaps there will ultimately be two price tiers - one for M9's with replaced sensors and another for those without. Now that Leica has discontinued this free service, how many people will want to buy an M9 body for an amount that does justice to the beauty of this device knowing that a sensor replacement could cost an amount equal to the purchase price of the camera. Indeed, do we know if Leica will even continue do the retrofit, at any price, finding it too expensive or inconvenient to retrofit a product several generations old. Such a corporate decision, once known, could kill the value of a camera with the original sensor. Or, perhaps, the sensors will simply become unavailable.

On the other hand, bodies that have had the retrofit may have an enhanced value because this potential expense is off the table and are more "rare." That will also depend on the percentage of M9's that have had the replacement done. Is there any information suggesting the percentage of CCD sensors that have been replaced vs the total number of M9 iterations made.

As for me, my M9 has been in Wetzlar's hands for two months for a sensor replacement. I have an S 006 and will be interested to see if Leica handles the sensor issue for this "professional" model in the same way.

Cheers,

David

Edited October 4, 2017 by Deliberate1

[Ko.Fe.]

I would not, personally, count on any digi camera as collectible. They are nothing but tools designed for more convinient than film way of image taking. Ten years and this is it. Not supported anymore, due to the parts.

M9 will run high for five years or so and then it will become M8.

 

Knowing all of this, I went with M-E (new in the store). Five years of nothing, but pleasure is enough for me...

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[Deliberate1]

I would not, personally, count on any digi camera as collectible. They are nothing but tools designed for more convinient than film way of image taking. 

 

No argument from me, mate. Very sensible perspective.

That said, have you seen how much beat up lunch boxes from the 60's go for now? 

[adan]

Lunch boxes don't depend on dedicated batteries and 1960s-era software to function....

 

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/58/FortranCardPROJ039.agr.jpg

[Graham (G4FUJ)]

But lunch boxes could still be usable.

Once the electronics really becomes irrepairable the device is no more than a trinket or dust gatherer...

[Deliberate1]

Lunch boxes don't depend on dedicated batteries and 1960s-era software to function....

 

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/58/FortranCardPROJ039.agr.jpg

Nice bookmark....

[earleygallery]

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About as collectible as an old laptop. Who wants to buy my 2007 Macbook? It's becoming quite rare you know!

[DandA]

No doubt what everyone says is true about limited lifespan of almost all digital cameras and their eventual value reduced to a minimum. I often come across my original $5,000 Nikon D1 in pawn shops for less than $100.

 

Yet if there is demand for the M9 in years to come becuase of its treasured output by quite a few, I could possobly see a 3rd party repair servixe that cannibalizes parts from non functioning M9 bodies.

 

Look at the audiophile market with vintage 1950 and 1960's equipment kept going by being rebuilt. Yes they comprise of discrete componenets, but circuit boards and other parts taken from non fuctioning M9 bodies would be possible.

 

Lets see in 50 years if I am right.

 

Dave (D&A)

[pgk]

No doubt what everyone says is true about limited lifespan of almost all digital cameras and their eventual value reduced to a minimum. I often come across my original $5,000 Nikon D1 in pawn shops for less than $100.

I have a 1994 DCS420 Kodak Camera which originally cost around £8k (~£13k in today's money). A 1.5MPixel, 2.7x crop factor paperweight. The basic problem is power. No batteries and no charger. I suppose it could be got going if I really wanted to make the effort. And it should be collectable - it represented a state-of-the-art camera built by a blue chip company and is a part of the history of the digital revolution. But it isn't. Leica's will always hold some value even if not working, but whether the digital models will retain as significant a value as the film cameras is doubtful I would say.

 

[i have a D1 too - it sits on a tripod as part of a sign and despite its age still appears to be waterproof .......].

[jdlaing]

I personally don’t buy them for their future value. I buy them to capture images and when they are no longer useful I buy more.

[james.liam]

It's only a matter of time before some other irreplaceable bit of electronics starts failing on the M9 (and M8) . Look at the woes of the DMR and all the failed rear LCD screens of the M8. Outdated parts that can no longer be sourced. I reckon in a decade, my M9M will take a proud place next to the Philips Laser Disc player and Nikon D40 that both seized-up long ago.

 

Leica will probably make batteries for some time to come as they're probably low production cost/high margin items.

Edited October 5, 2017 by james.liam

[Hallstein]

The M9 takes great pictures, and will continue to take great pictures in the future.

 

I predict a small collectors market in the future, and some people will still use theirs. 

I also think leica is kind of an oddball in the old camera market. You can compare it to people that collect old computers. If you buy an old apple computer, it will probably still fetch a good price (look up prices of old apple computers from ebay) just because apple computers had pretty good build quality for the time, and are quite rare.

 

Just because something is digital, does not mean it is not collectible. Leica has a strong story and background, why shouldn't a functioning Leica M9 fetch a decent price 20 years from now? I just purchased my first Leica, an M9, and it's an 8 year old digital camera, and i love it!

 

You definately would not be able to make me purchase a computer, tv, or consumer camera from 2009. But with the leica, it's special. It has a particular mojo about it, that i think future camera enthusiasts will appreciate as well. The prices probably won't be 2000$ for a body. Perhaps in the 500-1000$ range, but i'm pretty certain there will be buyers for functioning and recently serviced cameras. And there probably will be independent service shops for the M9 when leica ends their support.

 

Just my 2 cents.

[mikemgb]

It's only a matter of time before some other irreplaceable bit of electronics starts failing on the M9 (and M8) . Look at the woes of the DMR and all the failed rear LCD screens of the M8. Outdated parts that can no longer be sourced. I reckon in a decade, my M9M will take a proud place next to the Philips Laser Disc player and Nikon D40 that both seized-up long ago.

 

Leica will probably make batteries for some time to come as they're probably low production cost/high margin items.

 

Ahem, most Nikon D40s still seem to be working, and overall fetching more money than laser disc players.

 

The D40 was my first DSLR, it was stolen several years ago and I still miss it.

[pico]

[...] I predict a

small collectors market in the future, and some people will still use theirs.

Oh, how interesting. As I've written before I am keeping my two M9s as-is, no upgrade.

So, ya think I can copyright the corrosion image defects? I'm considering copyrighting

a frame with no subject such as an out-of-focus white wall. Any image having the

same artifacts would violate my copyright.

 

Way cool.

 

And there probably will be independent service shops for the M9 when leica ends their support.

Not a chance. The very few competent independent Leica services wont' touch a digital

Leica's electronics today. Among other practical issues, they would not have access to sensors.

Edited October 6, 2017 by pico

[MarkP]

Yet my two HP-32SII calculators are worth more now that when I bought them in the early 1990s. Some electronic technology holds it's value.

Edited October 6, 2017 by MarkP

[Graham (G4FUJ)]

Lets see in 50 years if I am right.

 

Dave (D&A)

As I'll be 109 in 50 years I don't think I'll be worrying about the continuing usability of M9 Leicas...

[pgk]

..... why shouldn't a functioning Leica M9 fetch a decent price 20 years from now?

 

My previous post in which I mentioned Kodak DCS cameras, I stated that the problem with them is not whether they function or not, but their batteries and chargers. Even my DCS ProN which still takes good 14MPixel photos (although its interface is worse than Sony's) has battery problems and although it still has a working charger the batteries are temperamental lithium cells which are not easy to refurbish. 20 years from now battery technology will have changed and the chances of having still working original M9 batteries or being able to get replacements will be low I suspect. M9s may still be in working condition but whether they can be powered is another question. Their value is therefore likely to be purely as a collectable and as wlth all such stuff will almost certainly depend on condition.

[MarkP]

It may also be that in 20 years the SD card has gone the way of the Compact Cassette, floppy disc and Zip Drive.

Edited October 6, 2017 by MarkP

[mikemgb]

It may also be that in 20 years the SD card has gone the way of the Compact Cassette, floppy disc and Zip Drive.

 

That is a strong possibility, my first digital camera purchased in 2003 took a Smart Media card, try finding a reader for one of those these days. 

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[pgk]

Rather a coincidence today, but in a charity shop I came across a Kodak DC3200 camera literally in a bin full of cameras. At £3 I was happy to buy it to put in the Gallery 'history' cabinet alongside my other obsolete photographic display items. However I thought it worth trying so I put 4 x AA batteries in and a CF card and it powered up and yes, worked fine. OK so its only 1MPixel but given that it dates form 2000-2002ish and it still works I'm impressed. The real advantage is with the AA batteries it uses as they've been around for a long time and hopefully will be for a long time to come. If a manufacturer could come up with a power-pack replacement which used readily available batteries like AAs to power loads of cameras via an adapter then many might have an extended life beyond their bespoke battery life.