steed Posted October 3, 2017 Share #1 Posted October 3, 2017 Advertisement (gone after registration) Are the M3 framelines supposed to be rounded at the corners? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted October 3, 2017 Posted October 3, 2017 Hi steed, Take a look here M3 frameline question. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
pico Posted October 3, 2017 Share #2 Posted October 3, 2017 Yes, rounded corners. Lovely, aren't they? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Geschlecht Posted October 3, 2017 Share #3 Posted October 3, 2017 (edited) Hello Steed, The 50mm frame has rounded corners to remind users that the frame shows the captured image of a slide with the 50mm lens in question focused to 1 meter. Minus 1/2mm of the edge of the slide all of the way around which would be covered by the slide mount. The 90mm frame focused at 1 meter & the 135mm frame focused at 1.5 meters assume the same 1/2mm but do not have round corners Best Regards, Michael Edited October 3, 2017 by Michael Geschlecht 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gyoung Posted October 3, 2017 Share #4 Posted October 3, 2017 Yes, just to clarify, the outer frame used for 50 mm and 35mm with goggles has rounded corners, the other two for 90mm and 135mm have 'square' corners. I have understood that the thick outer frame approximates a full negative on the outer edge, a mounted slide (where the image is masked by the mount) on the inside, but I doubt that its all that accurate. Gerry Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted October 3, 2017 Share #5 Posted October 3, 2017 I used to have an M3, I really didn't 'bond' with it and I think looking back it was partly down to those thick rounded frame lines. Yuk!! I didn't make prints with rounded corners, and my slides all came back with squared apertures (I know older Kodachromes had rounded corners though). 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Geschlecht Posted October 3, 2017 Share #6 Posted October 3, 2017 I used to have an M3, I really didn't 'bond' with it and I think looking back it was partly down to those thick rounded frame lines. Yuk!! I didn't make prints with rounded corners, and my slides all came back with squared apertures (I know older Kodachromes had rounded corners though). Hello James, You always had what what you saw in the range/viewfinder window or MORE on the slide or negative when you made prints. Never less. Best Regards, Michael Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
willeica Posted October 3, 2017 Share #7 Posted October 3, 2017 Advertisement (gone after registration) I love the M3 frame-lines, but then, with my poor eyesight, seeing lines and corners straight isn't always possible. I , therefore, have no reaction against round corners. The M3 viewfinder is the best one that Leica ever made. For 50mm lenses and the 35mm Summaron with goggles, it is just perfect. What does throw me sometimes are frame-lines with no corners or part lines. With my kind of eyesight this can be disconcerting. Less of a problem with digital where you can 'chimp' and take another shot. William Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Geschlecht Posted October 3, 2017 Share #8 Posted October 3, 2017 (edited) Hello William, An M3 is also very good with a 90mm lens because it has a 0.91X image within a frame which has a space around it: So that you can see what is coming into the frame from all directions. Much like some people use a 50mm lens on an M4. Also nice with a 135mm lens w/o goggles. For the same reason. Best Regards, Michael Edited October 3, 2017 by Michael Geschlecht Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gyoung Posted October 3, 2017 Share #9 Posted October 3, 2017 I love the M3 frame-lines, but then, with my poor eyesight, seeing lines and corners straight isn't always possible. I , therefore, have no reaction against round corners. The M3 viewfinder is the best one that Leica ever made. For 50mm lenses and the 35mm Summaron with goggles, it is just perfect. What does throw me sometimes are frame-lines with no corners or part lines. With my kind of eyesight this can be disconcerting. Less of a problem with digital where you can 'chimp' and take another shot. William +1 Every time I put my M6ttl to my eye there was a momentary thought- how could they do this as a development of such a lovely viewfinder as the M3. I have my M3 since '68, and take about 85% of my pics with 35 and 50 or equivalent and its full viewfinder for both with 35 and 50 Summicrons. Gerry Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Geschlecht Posted October 3, 2017 Share #10 Posted October 3, 2017 (edited) Hello Gerry, The majority of the cost difference between the M2 & the M3, when both cameras were being sold at the same time: Was the difference in the cost of the range/viewfinder systems. At the same time: Single Lens Reflex cameras were becoming more usable with the development of quick return mirrors & pentaprisms to allow correct eye level viewing. Single lens Reflex cameras were also better with lenses above around 135mm. So Leitz MIGHT have thought: Why not concentrate on lenses of 135mm & less where an even lower magnification range/viewfinder is certainly quite good: The M2 range/viewfinder had a 135mm frame added + quick load + faster rewind + standard P/C flash sockets in place of the better operating Leitz flash sockets & here was the M4. And bring out a Leitz Single Lens Reflex (Leicaflex) to complement the new M4. Reasonable. Best Regards, Michael Edited October 3, 2017 by Michael Geschlecht Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomB_tx Posted October 4, 2017 Share #11 Posted October 4, 2017 When I bought my M4 in 1968 new M3s we're still for sale - at the same price. I had used borrowed M2 and M3 before, and the M4 was an easy decision for me over the M3. Today I have the 2,3,4 and others, and while the M3 is nice with a 90, I prefer the wider finder with a 35 over an M3 with goggles. And I agreed with Michael: within months of getting my M4 I got a Leicaflex SL and 135 Elmarit R. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
250swb Posted October 4, 2017 Share #12 Posted October 4, 2017 I used to have an M3, I really didn't 'bond' with it and I think looking back it was partly down to those thick rounded frame lines. Yuk!! I didn't make prints with rounded corners, and my slides all came back with squared apertures (I know older Kodachromes had rounded corners though). You just can't say that on the Leica Forum, it is a well known fact that the M3 has the best viewfinder ever and to argue the opposite case is heresy (although I do agree with you 100%). 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
willeica Posted October 4, 2017 Share #13 Posted October 4, 2017 You just can't say that on the Leica Forum, it is a well known fact that the M3 has the best viewfinder ever and to argue the opposite case is heresy (although I do agree with you 100%). My reasons for liking the M3 viewfinder have everything to do with my eyesight and glasses and nothing to do with any kind of 'group think'. The latter is to be found on most enthusiast forums, however, and is probably unavoidable. William 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
spydrxx Posted October 4, 2017 Share #14 Posted October 4, 2017 I used an M3 on trial in 1967 but opted for an M4 as soon as they became available, and used it up until about 3 years ago. Finally sold it as my eyesight was seriously deteriorating. I found I really missed it, but being low on cash, I found a M2 needing some TLC and that worked fine as my favorite fl is 35mm. I also occasionally use a Canon P whose VF/RF is comparable to the M3 in magnification, but includes lines for 35/50/100mm lenses. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gyoung Posted October 4, 2017 Share #15 Posted October 4, 2017 In 1968 I had at last sorted out the money to swap my Pentax stuff for Leica. Long before rejected the M2 since with my glasses I couldn't see the 35mm frame. Working for a Leica dealer we knew 'something' was coming, and both Ms were becoming a bit dated (ttl lightmeters were appearing, built in meters common). Great dissapointment with the M4, just a warmed over M2. I liked the levers which made it look more up to date but the same old viewfinder. They might have given it more eye relief, or a dual magnification like one or two japanese rf cameras had. But no. So I bought two M3s, one of which I still use. Years later the Voigtlander R2 was acquired, and I liked using it with the built in meter so much that when I retired I bit the bullit and bought an M6ttl, great fun to use intil digital came along but whenever I put it to my eye I disliked the clutter of the extra frames, 75 and 135 were vestigial and not much use, 28 I couldn't see. 35 was only visible because they made it smaller so less accurate. About right for 40mm. A miserable comprise IMHO. A dual magnification would have done the trick and more eye relief. Fuji can do it in the Xpro2. No worthwhile investment by Leica in that viewfinder in 50 years. Gerry Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandro Posted October 4, 2017 Share #16 Posted October 4, 2017 Gerry, too bad you feel a bit grumpy about the viewfinders that many others still like. Lex Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gyoung Posted October 5, 2017 Share #17 Posted October 5, 2017 Well sorry if it came out grumpy, I thought 'sad' that they didn't take the chance to improve on a good viewfinder. No camera is perfect, one makes the best of what's available and I certainly enjoyed using the M6ttl, especially after I got the Elmarit 135 to 'solve' that 'problem'! Gerry Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilentShutter Posted October 5, 2017 Share #18 Posted October 5, 2017 The M3 viewfinder is the best one that Leica ever made. For 50mm lenses and the 35mm Summaron with goggles, it is just perfect. Absolutly agree on that ! If you love film and your nifty-fifty the M3 is the best pick ever. Just the Nikon S2 comes nearly close to it........ Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jc_braconi Posted October 5, 2017 Share #19 Posted October 5, 2017 The M3 was my first Leica (well used) camera using Kodakchome 24 next For B&W I bought a IIIa followed by a second M3(also well used) for B&W today it is always my preferite Leicacannot explain why I love to have one in hand... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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