50 apo vs 90 apo

[Csacwp]

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How does the 50 apo compare in terms of microcontrast and sharpness to the 90 apo? I'm considering getting a 90 apo or waiting for the SL 90... if the 90 apo is on par with the 50 apo, then I'll likely get it for its M compatibility.

[UliWer]

Leica publishes the MTF-graphs of both lenses on their website. If you compare them you'll find that microcontrast and sharpness of the 50mm Apo Asph. are higher than for the 90mm lens - which is really astonishing since it is much much easier to achieve better results with the design of a longer focal length. This does in no way mean that the 90mm Apo Asph is a "slouch" - it is still one of the best lenses Leica ever made. If one wants more one has to take into account the extreme price of the 50 Apo. Asph. The difference shown on the MTF-graphs may have some meaning in a laboratory but will usually not make a real difference for the photos.

 

Though if one wants a 90mm lens not for M but for the SL the obvious advice is to wait some months.

 

 

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[Neko]

I have both and even though the 90 APO is a great lens, I rather prefer the 50 APO. Its micro contrast, sharpness and color rendition are just astonishing. In combination with my Monochrom1  produces very beautiful B&W prints.

[romanus53]

I have both and even though the 90 APO is a great lens, I rather prefer the 50 APO. Its micro contrast, sharpness and color rendition are just astonishing. In combination with my Monochrom1  produces very beautiful B&W prints.

Aggred in all aspects, as I found the bookeh of the 90apo a little bit busy I sold it and kept the 50 apo, found it better to isolate the motive against the background.

[Csacwp]

I can agree in my limited experience that the 90 Apo has less pleasing bokeh.  The 50 apo bokeh is so good that it almost makes you forget that it is an aspherical lens.

​Ideally, I could use a 90mm now... I tried the last pre-aspherical version (the Mandler design) and didn't like it.  The colors were weak and the bokeh was very swirly and distracting, nothing like the beautiful rendering of my 75mm Summilux.  I actually preferred the 90 apo in all respects.  I just don't know if I should buy one or hold off for something better and suffer in the meantime.    

Edited September 27, 2017 by Csacwp

[onasj]

The 50 APO is more or less perfect, in my opinion, given its obvious boundary constraints: f/2 maximum aperture, and corner to corner sharpness means no “Leica glow” for in-focus subjects. The 90 APO is also outstanding, almost as sharp, but less versatile due to its focal length.

 

All that said, the biggest differences between the lenses, beyond the price, is that shooting 50 vs 90 is very different in terms of perspective. Used properly, both lenses will delight and amaze.

[adan]

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Not surprising that the 90 APO won't (or appears not to) match the 50 APO:

 

- Different eras/designers - 90 APO 1998 under Kölsch, 50 APO 2013 under Karbe, 15 years advancement in lens technology (at a price). 1998 was the first year Leica even attempted to make APO lenses for the M (135 and 90 same year). There is always a learning curve.

 

- 90mm f/2 lens has to handle ~4x the incoming light rays (physical aperture diameter squared) - always much harder to "corral" all the light rays coming through a LARGE APERTURE long lens, compared to an equal f/stopped shorter focal length. A 90mm f/2 equates to a "45mm Noctilux f/1 with a 2x converter" in terms of volume of light to be bent and controlled.

 

- In general use, unless one matches magnification of the subject/framing (e.g. by using the 50 at 0.7 meters and the 90 at 1.26 meters) the 50 will have more DoF and thus more likelihood of any one thing looking "sharp enough", or various things almost in the same plane looking sharp (in prints).

 

- which means a higher hit rate - using the rangefinder for focus - with the 50.

 

Due to those last three factors, I find even the non-APO 50 Summicron often produces a greater "sharpness impression" than the 90 APO (to borrow Erwin Puts' phrase). Despite the .mtf charts showing otherwise.

 

My sense is that the 75 Summicron APO or even Summarit consistently better "match" the 50 APO look than does the 90 APO - especially close-up (75 Summicron's floating element). For the same reasons (newer designs, more focus leeway). But of course you don't get the reach and "quote-perspective-unquote" or amount of background defocus of a 90.

 

After 19 years, the 90 APO design may be due for an overhaul....

Edited September 27, 2017 by adan

[UliWer]

Reading the expectations and sufferings in this thread I fear the biggest overhaul will be the price tag.

[Simon]

I might add that while all Leica lenses have very low distortion, the 50 APO is one of those incredible distortion-free lenses.

 

For some reason I seem to be hyper-sensitive to distortion and dislike it intensely. I should note that it’s mainly non-Leica lenses where I see it though. I rarely notice it in any Leica lens and that would include the 90 APO.

[Csacwp]

I just ordered the 90 Apo... I'm mainly going to shoot it on the SL, so focusing it should be a breeze.  Heck, I just shot an entire stage event using the SL and 75mm Summilux wide open in very poor light, and nailing focus wasn't too difficult.  

​Hopefully Leica doesn't opt to replace the 90 Apo too soon... otherwise I'll regret buying one so late in the game.  Then again, the 90 Apo has a different rendering than any of the Karbe lenses.  It's less transparent and has far more character (it has a very masculine, mature/proper look to my eyes).

[UliWer]

Well, the non-apo 50mm Summicron has even less distortion than the apo version - though the difference is extremely negligable. I havn‘t seen any measurements for the ancient 1:3.5/5cm Elmar, but I fear it will beat any Summicron in „freedom of distortion“.

[NB23]

Then again, the 90 Apo has a different rendering than any of the Karbe lenses. It's less transparent and has far more character (it has a very masculine, mature/proper look to my eyes).

You're talking about Omni-Contrast or is it Delta?

[Ko.Fe.]

With masculine it is Alpha, not Delta.

[lct]

I did not know i had so many feminine lenses but i could hardly tell which 90mm lens is more transparent than the 90/2 apo. The latter has less character than earlier lenses like 90/2 v3 or my favorite v2 though. Big female this v2 BTW .

Edited September 29, 2017 by lct

[NB23]

With masculine it is Alpha, not Delta.

 

Omega

[NB23]

Let's start a motion for new lens terms.

 

Feminine contrast

Masculine contrast

Mature contrast

Immature contrast.

[mls1483]

Indeed, the 50 APO Summicron is a nearly perfect lens: Extremely sharp (from corner to corner and that allready wide open!), high micro-contrast, no distortion, flare resistant, very nice bokeh, nice color rendition. 

 

I would rather compare it to other lenses of the same focal length: The Zeiss Planar 50/2 for instance is also very sharp - but up to f/5.6 - f/8 only in the centre. Wide open in can in no way match the 50 APO Summicron.

 

For 90mm focal length the APO Summicron is - though older design and more classical look - still the reference. At f/5.6 or f/8 micro contrast is still slightly lower than for the 50 APO Summicron - but this is only visible at 100% crop. The 90mm Summicron produces very sharp pictures with pleasing rendition and very nice colors, and it offers more subject/background separation due to the focal length.  

 

If you can afford the classic lineup 28 - 50 - 90mm, you will be very satisfied with the 50 APO Summicron and the 90 APO Summicron.