Focusing fast on the 50SL

[BigBabyEarl]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

I recently bought a 50 SL after seeing pretty stunning images. I have 1 year old daughter and wanted something to take more portraits with. I was a little taken back by how slow the lens is to focus using face detection. I've used a fast shutter and had some amazing results when nails, but lots of missed moments. Lots. I'm still learning and had better luck the other day, but I still can't believe how slow it is- particularly in low light. I've used a S 007 100mm and felt like it was faster (but so damn expensive I sold it out of guilt, bought an 006 that is slower and lower iso so welcome to my hell). I've always loved Leica. Its look, its beautiful cameras, its slow but interesting innovations. Now I feel like a chump. I'm growing tired of missing moments and the Nikon D850 or Fuji GFX is looking better day by day. 

[LD_50]

Contrast detect focus systems are often going to be slower (and more accurate) than phase detect systems.

 

If you bought the 50 SL for the IQ and the f1.4 DOF and light gathering, the GFX has nothing to offer (63mm is an f2.8) and the D850 doesn’t offer any autofocus lenses at 50/1.4 with similar IQ.

 

If you don’t need the shallow DOF and light gathering abilility afforded by the f1.4 aperture, try the 24-90 for faster focusing with solid IQ.

[Advertisement]

The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[Michael Geschlecht]

Hello Earl,

 

Welcome to the Forum.

 

An F1.4. 50mm Summilux Asph for a film camera is pretty much the same lens.

 

If you use an M3 with a .91X magnification range/viewfinder: Looking & Focusing are easy. And the shutter lag is 1/50th of a second.

 

Not too bad for a camera that was discontinued before anyone ever walked on the Moon.

 

Best Regards,

 

Michael

Edited September 27, 2017 by Michael Geschlecht

[BigBabyEarl]

Contrast detect focus systems are often going to be slower (and more accurate) than phase detect systems.

 

If you bought the 50 SL for the IQ and the f1.4 DOF and light gathering, the GFX has nothing to offer (63mm is an f2.8) and the D850 doesn’t offer any autofocus lenses at 50/1.4 with similar IQ.

 

If you don’t need the shallow DOF and light gathering abilility afforded by the f1.4 aperture, try the 24-90 for faster focusing with solid IQ.

Definitely for quality. That's what lead me to the S 100 too. The Nikon 58 1.4 is the closest I can see in terms of Nikon offerings. The Fuji 63 has a unique look as it's 4:3 medium format and the 2.8 equals to (something more shallow) stop in equivalents to the SL. I was hopeful firmware would improve the 50 SL speed, but I spoke to one Leica rep who said it won't. The thought of waiting until the end of 2018 for possible faster native primes is also really frustrating. I can walk in a store now and get primes for canons, nikons, Fuji GF, even X1D and yet I'm two years in on the SL and I have one prime that's slow to AF.

[LD_50]

You probably should not have bought the SL if you wanted native primes right away.

 

I owned the Nikon 58/1.4 and enjoyed it. It was more of a “unique look” lens than a reference lens as the 50SL is supposed to be. It was reasonably fast to focus on my D4s but not comparable to the faster Nikkors like the 200/2, 70-200/2.8, etc.

[cpclee]

The 24-90 is a better suited lens for that purpose. You get fast AF and the ability to zoom in and out will help keep you kid in the frame. An 1.4 aperture isn’t very useful when you have a fast moving subject

[frame-it]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

the fuji GFX lenses are quite nice https://www.flickr.com/groups/fujifilm_gfx/pool/

 

 

https://flic.kr/s/aHskSVbzKo

 

 

 

 

 

Definitely for quality. That's what lead me to the S 100 too. The Nikon 58 1.4 is the closest I can see in terms of Nikon offerings. The Fuji 63 has a unique look as it's 4:3 medium format and the 2.8 equals to (something more shallow) stop in equivalents to the SL. I was hopeful firmware would improve the 50 SL speed, but I spoke to one Leica rep who said it won't. The thought of waiting until the end of 2018 for possible faster native primes is also really frustrating. I can walk in a store now and get primes for canons, nikons, Fuji GF, even X1D and yet I'm two years in on the SL and I have one prime that's slow to AF.

Edited September 27, 2017 by frame-it

[Guest VVJ]

I was on a 50mm pre-order list for 9 months... till I had myself removed mainly out of sheer frustration but also after reading far too many experiences like yours...

 

I still can't wrap my head around the fact that they got the autofocus so right with the 2 zooms and completely screwed up with the 50mm...

Edited September 27, 2017 by JorisV

[FlashGordonPhotography]

It's not screwed up. It's just a big lens with a big group that needs to be moved for AF. Optimised for accuracy over speed. It is what it is. And it's fine for 95% of normal shooting. The Canon 85L is slower and yet we don't see people bitching about it's focus speed. Or we could compare to the Canon 50L which has very fast AF and lousy focus accuracy and some wonderful, uncorrected focus shift stopped down.

 

The zooms move smaller elements so they have faster AF.

 

Not to mention that the 50SL focus speed has been widely discussed on this and other forums. It's quite easy to find information regarding the focus speed, if you were to look for it. There's also the option of going to a Leica store and trying it before plonking down 5 grand.

 

I do think it would be wise for Leica to make a fast focus 50mm Summicron or Summarit sooner than later though.

 

Gordon

[LD_50]

I guess I’m in the minority on the forum in that I’ve never worried avout AF speed with a 50 prime (or the Nikon 58). I just don’t shoot anything with that focal length where AF speed and large aperture together are important.

 

If I’m shooting with a smaller aperture (2.8+) I’ve always just gone for a zoom optimized for fast AF.

[BigBabyEarl]

The Canon 85L is slower and yet we don't see people bitching about it's focus speed.

 

Gordon

Funny. Someone just PM'd about this topic. They actually said the 85 was FASTER on the 5DSR

[Guest VVJ]

It's not screwed up. It's just a big lens with a big group that needs to be moved for AF. Optimised for accuracy over speed. It is what it is. 

 

Gordon,

 

I am afraid for most people expensive, heavy, long focusing distance, slow AF and bad low light focusing is simply too much of a compromise...

 

And if people are complaining so much about the autofocus, then yes, Leica did screw up, however harsh that may sound...

 

The fact that Leica has not released another lens since the 50mm is IMO unfortunately a testimony to that.  Hopefully they are indeed taking their time and want to get it entirely right with the next lens.

 

I will make an effort to try it out in a Leica store one day.  Please note that it has only become readily available in stores in the last few months...

 

Joris.

Edited September 27, 2017 by JorisV

[cpclee]

If we agree that Leica got the zooms right, then chances are AF with the 50 Summilux SL is more complicated than some here would have you believe than to say that Leica is a bunch of morons.

 

FWIW, none of the highest quality primes from Zeiss even offer AF, despite their cheaper lenses do. That should tell you something about the technical challenges and trade offs present.

 

Simply stated, the 50 Summilux SL is the only lens on the planet at that caliber that offers AF. Guess I’m a glass half full kind of guy

 

I was on a 50mm pre-order list for 9 months... till I had myself removed mainly out of sheer frustration but also after reading far too many experiences like yours...

 

I still can't wrap my head around the fact that they got the autofocus so right with the 2 zooms and completely screwed up with the 50mm...

[Alo Ako]

 

I am afraid for most people expensive, heavy, long focusing distance, slow AF and bad low light focusing is simply too much of a compromise...

 

 

 

What are you looking for:

 

a) photo gear that is sexy in the sense of weight, speed, dimensions...then you should buy another brand than Leica SL or

b ) a tool to realize the photos created by your brain, just limited by knowledge and practice...then Leica may give you the tool you are looking for.

 

It is your decision, not Leica`s. 

Edited September 27, 2017 by Alo Ako

[LD_50]

What are you looking for:

 

a) photo gear that is sexy in the sense of weight, speed, dimensions...then you should buy another brand than Leica SL or

b ) a tool to realize the photos created by your brain, just limited by knowledge and practice...then Leica may give you the tool you are looking for.

 

It is your decision, not Leica`s.

Leica makes tools that meet the first criteria. The Q is an example.

 

The second one... I have no idea why this would be related to any specific brand.

[lx1713]

I think maybe it's labeled a fast lens, expectations bounded on the wrong attribute     

I confess to the same inclination to think prime lenses ought to be fast focusing lenses but given the price, image quality will be my main concern.

Better to use it under conditions where it shines rather than grieve over the limitations. 

 

My experience of AF 50mm f1.4 lenses tend to be fast and snappy to focus, but out of focus. Or fast and snappy but sharp only in the center, edges fail.

I never minded it (oh well, sometimes I do) because having a shot of a nice moment beats sharpness and tones in my book  If it fails your test, print it tiny. Maybe 4R only.

 

Mind you, at 24mp, if one pixel peeps, a lot of people will be sorely disappointed.

 

Then maybe a personal competition between manual focusing and an AF is called for, the photographer being the ultimate winner.

After all if the photographer can focus faster and more instinctively than the machine, he/she benefits. If the machine, he/she benefits.

Either way we learn the limits more keenly.

Edited September 27, 2017 by lx1713

[tom0511]

I also own this lens and have to kids.

It is not the fastest lens, but I think you can get good images of kids with it when you are used to it. 

50mm is not a sports focal laength anywas. Dont give up too fast.

And I agree with others: for the moments where you dont need the f1.4-3.5 range, the 24-90 is a faster alternative (and 90mm is very usefull as well for kids photography).

I have had Canon once (50/1.2) and also the 58/1.4 Nikon, the Canon 50 I had problems to get really accurate reliable focus, both lenses dont offer the wide open quality you get from the Leica lens, even though I also liked those lenses (more for character than for perfection).

I recommend to give it some time and not give up too fast.

[tom0511]

Funny. Someone just PM'd about this topic. They actually said the 85 was FASTER on the 5DSR

 

I only can compare it to the Caon 50/1.2 on a 5DIII, I think it was slightly faster in low light but not allways accurate. I dont think there is a world difference. Many fast 50s are not speed beasts, even though I agree I wish the Leica 50SL would lock a bit snappier.

I also wish the SL had a cmbination of contrast and phase AF.

But until then I am still happy how good that lens is, and compared to the Otus the AF is much faster.

[thighslapper]

I recently bought a 50 SL after seeing pretty stunning images. I have 1 year old daughter and wanted something to take more portraits with. I was a little taken back by how slow the lens is to focus using face detection. I've used a fast shutter and had some amazing results when nails, but lots of missed moments. Lots. I'm still learning and had better luck the other day, but I still can't believe how slow it is- particularly in low light. I've used a S 007 100mm and felt like it was faster (but so damn expensive I sold it out of guilt, bought an 006 that is slower and lower iso so welcome to my hell). I've always loved Leica. Its look, its beautiful cameras, its slow but interesting innovations. Now I feel like a chump. I'm growing tired of missing moments and the Nikon D850 or Fuji GFX is looking better day by day. 

 Your issue is precisely why camera systems are sold with different lenses and all have strengths/weaknesses. 

 

Basically you are using the wrong tool for the job. 

 

Digging the garden with a spoon is possible but not a rewarding exercise.

 

Moving or Low Light subjects are not what the AF in this lens is designed for .... otherwise it performs as stated by Leica ....... you might be better off using MF in this situation. 

 

All the lenses I have have some compromises ....... and the 50SL has plenty of trade-offs to achieve the image quality it produces. 90% of the time I love it ...... and 10% of the time it is threatened with eBay if it doesn't behave better ....

Edited September 27, 2017 by thighslapper

[Advertisement]

Hallo,

Look here: Leica L-Mount

[kape06111]

IF you go for the GFX, you will have the same or even worse problems with the AF. IQ is superb as it is with the Sl+50. Same with the Hassy X1D.

On the other hand if your first requirement is AF speed with a good IQ (IMHO , not in the same league as the above mentioned), the sony A9 + zeiss 50 f1.4 could also be a posibillity. 

Edited September 27, 2017 by kape06111