35mm Summilux Pre-Aspheric production run choice

[mdg1371]

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I’m ready to pick up a pre-aspheric 35 Summilux, and would greatly appreciate any input on which to choose— I’ve read about improvements as production ran over the years, and the last run, made in Germany, in the 35xxxxx serial number range, especially the titanium ones are the way to go.

 

Are the final German ones demonstrably better wide open than a slightly earlier ( 32xxxxxx 1980’s) production in terms of sharpness?

 

I’m not buying the lens for sharpness, I don’t expect miracles, but would like to get the best performing version.

[g2van]

I've tested a Canadian version and now I own a German version. From my everyday use I don't see any difference between the two especially wide open - both have the signature glow up to f2. What do you mean by "better wide open"? There are all kinds of theories on the internet about maybe the German versions having a better coating. 

 

I suppose the most important is to ensure that the one you buy can work on your M camera. For the M10, it states that certain Canadian versions will not focus to infinity and you can send it to Leica for a modification.

 

Also, if you aren't aware, do your research on how to use filters with the standard 12504 hood. I used a third party solution that I believe works better.

 

I decided on the German version mostly because the Canadian version I tested was way too beat up.

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[pico]

The lenses are all optically the same. The differences are with the body - a tab with infinity lock or not. Titanium was merely a cosmetic application.

Edited September 24, 2017 by pico

[mdg1371]

Appreciated.

By “ better wide open”, I mean slightly sharper.

I’ve also read that last run German lenses may focus a touch closer...

[mdg1371]

The lenses are all optically the same. The differences are with the body - a tab with infinity lock or not. Titanium was merely a cosmetic application.

Aren’t the titanium bodies brass as opposed to aluminum?

[g2van]

I’ve also read that last run German lenses may focus a touch closer...

Mine is 343xxxx and minimum focus is just shy of 3 feet and probably about 0.9m. No longer have the Canadian version to compare.

[g2van]

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By “ better wide open”, I mean slightly sharper.

Given the glow wide open, I think any difference in sharpness will come down to the particular model and how it fits the focus of your camera. You have to like the glow and find your own way to get the most satisfaction from it. I find that having at least -0.3EV lessens the glow and lowers the chance of and "overglowed/overexposed" portion. But that's just my own preference.

[pico]

Given the glow wide open, I think any difference in sharpness will come down to the particular model and how it fits the focus of your camera. You have to like the glow and find your own way to get the most satisfaction from it. I find that having at least -0.3EV lessens the glow and lowers the chance of and "overglowed/overexposed" portion. But that's just my own preference.

 

I am now on my 4th 35mm Summilux and they have all rendered the same. The so-called glow was at wide-open due to lighting conditions and type of film.

Edited September 24, 2017 by pico

[Ko.Fe.]

If you are looking for improvements of any pre-ASHP of Leitz lens you might be at the wrong path. IMO. If you are looking what is is great of any pre-ASPH lens stage it is right path. IMO.

 

Personally, I'm finding any pre-ASPH Leitz, Leica lens to be perfect without any improvements. As long as I know what to expect and how to use this lens...

[g2van]

If you are looking for improvements of any pre-ASHP of Leitz lens you might be at the wrong path. IMO. If you are looking what is is great of any pre-ASPH lens stage it is right path. IMO.

 

Personally, I'm finding any pre-ASPH Leitz, Leica lens to be perfect without any improvements. As long as I know what to expect and how to use this lens...

Agree fully! You've put it more accurately than me. 

[lct]

No experience with Titanium and Canadian v2 sorry. To get the most out of my German v2 re focus accuracy i use it on a mirrorless camera due to the focus shift of the lens but it is not a sharp lens at f/1.4 anyway. Fortunately so as its charm lies in its glow. If you're after sharpness at full aperture, an asph lens is the way to go.

Edited September 24, 2017 by lct

[Ecar]

Had both, didn't notice a difference in actual performance. I also kept the German 351XXXX because of its better cosmetic condition.

[luigi bertolotti]

_{What is sure is that the last have the focus tab of the "fragile" kind...}  

Edited September 24, 2017 by luigi bertolotti

[fcracer]

I recently picked up a German one to partner with my new FLE. Surprisingly, the older brother finds its way onto the M10 most of the time. Like others have said, lots of glow until F2 and then it’s sharp. At F8, there’s no difference between it and my new FLE. You can see the way the German on looks on my instagram: https://instagram.com/p/BZTeTfOndwq/

[NB23]

My Titanium Version is definitely better thant my old canadian version.

[pico]

My Titanium Version is definitely better thant my old canadian version.

In what ways?

[NB23]

Aren’t the titanium bodies brass as opposed to aluminum?

Yes. A joy to hold and use.

[pgk]

I’m ready to pick up a pre-aspheric 35 Summilux, and would greatly appreciate any input on which to choose— I’ve read about improvements as production ran over the years, and the last run, made in Germany, in the 35xxxxx serial number range, especially the titanium ones are the way to go.

 

Are the final German ones demonstrably better wide open than a slightly earlier ( 32xxxxxx 1980’s) production in terms of sharpness?

 

I’m not buying the lens for sharpness, I don’t expect miracles, but would like to get the best performing version.

 

I honestly don't believe that Leica increased build quality of any lenses throughout their production life unless they simply increased quality control and assembled to tighter tolerances. If they did, then I would suggest that any of these lenses could be CLA'd by Leica and adjusted to the same high tolerance. I'm not a subscriber to the idea that what was done in the past can't be redone today. It can. Bear in mind that these lenses are all 'old' in as much as most would probably benefit from a CLA (mine most likely would too!). I have one and a pre-FLE aspheric. The older lens is not as good optically with fine detail edges softer (very marginally) throughout its aperture range. The older lens was a state-of-the-art design and whilst it still holds up well, its soft wide open and not quite as good stopped down that its modern equivalents. 

[NB23]

I honestly don't believe that Leica increased build quality of any lenses throughout their production life unless they simply increased quality control and assembled to tighter tolerances. If they did, then I would suggest that any of these lenses could be CLA'd by Leica and adjusted to the same high tolerance. I'm not a subscriber to the idea that what was done in the past can't be redone today. It can. Bear in mind that these lenses are all 'old' in as much as most would probably benefit from a CLA (mine most likely would too!). I have one and a pre-FLE aspheric. The older lens is not as good optically with fine detail edges softer (very marginally) throughout its aperture range. The older lens was a state-of-the-art design and whilst it still holds up well, its soft wide open and not quite as good stopped down that its modern equivalents.

A production line always gets perfected and modified throughout its life.

 

A 20 years run (or is it 30?) will have changed a lot throughout its Lifespan. Even the glass type, aluminum, anodizing process and assembly logistics could not have been maintained the same as day 1.

 

--

 

Typos

Edited September 25, 2017 by NB23

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[pgk]

If you take a look at information on this lens on my website: http://marinewildlife.co.uk/info/leica-35mm-f1-4-pre-aspheric-summilux-m/ you will see the following quote at the bottom:

 

“Double Gauss lens design: a review of some classics” Jonas & Thorpe (of Elcan). Quote: “9. Re-optimising the Summilux 35mm f/1.4. – It appears that this simple double Gauss design cannot give improved performance given the field and aperture constraints even with additional glass choices”.

 

I have a pdf copy of the paper (I studied with one of the author's) and it does not indicate any significant changes as far as I am aware but I will reread it when I find the drive its on. From the above quote though, it would appear unlikely that changing glass would have had any beneficial effect as I think that it was Mandler's original design that the paper looked at.