First time M user advice

[jcatral14]

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Hello all. I'm wondering if you can help me decide.

For a first time M user, get a gently used M240 or just go M10? I'm thinking if a rangefinder is not for me, then I minimize my loss with an M240. The M240 is no slouch and would probably meet 80-90% of my needs and it has video for when I might need it. On the other hand, I miss out on the low light capability (higher ISO) of the M10, better processor and EVF. I can get a nice M240 with a very nice lens for what an M10 body alone would go for.

Hmmm, what to do? Would love to hear your comments and arguments for or against

TIA

[markhout]

You already answered your own question! I am in the exact same boat and have acquired a M240 plus a really nice lens for significantly less ($4500) than the new body cost of a M10. Lenses last long - bodies get upgraded much more often. Particularly new Leica bodies depreciate significantly after the 'first sale'.

 

So if you are a newbie like me, and want to try first, then I think the M240 is the way to go. Even if you are a die-hard low-light photographer, the rangefinder experience is so different from DSLR shooting that you still want to give the M240 a shot. The M240 is a real low light monster compared to the M9!

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[jcatral14]

You already answered your own question! I am in the exact same boat and have acquired a M240 plus a really nice lens for significantly less ($4500) than the new body cost of a M10. Lenses last long - bodies get upgraded much more often. Particularly new Leica bodies depreciate significantly after the 'first sale'.

 

So if you are a newbie like me, and want to try first, then I think the M240 is the way to go. Even if you are a die-hard low-light photographer, the rangefinder experience is so different from DSLR shooting that you still want to give the M240 a shot. The M240 is a real low light monster compared to the M9!

Thanks Mark! Yeah, I was initially set on the M10 but as I started thinking, the M240 might be a better option. Just asking if I there are any aspects I may have missed.

[Jeff S]

The RF experience could also be assessed using any of the prior digital Ms. A friendly dealer might allow a demo or purchase / trade on a newer model. Another option (in the US) is renting either or both first... zhttps://www.lensrentals.com/rent/cameras/photo/leica

 

I traded my M240 for the M10, but both are very capable tools. Either way, make sure your eyes are fully corrected to see the focus patch, which is set at a virtual distance of 2 m on both. Despite my wearing glasses (for distance and astigmatism), I still benefit from a .5 diopter. Your local optician can provide free trial diopters if you think some correction is warranted. The M10 VF (higher magnification, bigger opening and better eye relief) was one reason for my switch, but that was due to my personal vision issues and preferences. Only experience will determine your needs and preferences.

 

Jeff

Edited September 22, 2017 by Jeff S

[minh0204]

Lenses cost way more; you will soon want more that just 1 lens. I'd say go for m240 since the price is getting very reasonable and put more money towards lenses. You don't buy a Leica for high ISO (a Sony camera has way better high ISO than any Ms), but for the handling, and the two cameras are pretty much identical.

[ECohen]

You will definitely want more than one lens ....go for the 240 and save some bucks

If you love it.......in 4 years trade up to a new M11  

 

If money doesn't matter...... go for a new 10 .......your still going to want lenses

[LocalHero1953]

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There's no such thing as a value for money analysis in Leica world, so if you can afford the M10 and you like it then buy it. The only thing you are likely to gain from the M240 is the video option - everything else on the M10 is better: smaller, lighter, better OVF/EVF/RF, better interface, better IQ and high ISO performance.

 

BUT, and IMO, only a little bit better. I don't have the M10, but I've tried it; I also had the M9, and I have the M240, the SL and the TL2 - I can see where the M10 is going. The M240 was, again IMO, a much bigger step forward in all round performance, and some aspects of the M9 drove me nuts. Little about the M240 drives me nuts in the same way.

 

So, if money is a constraint, get the M240 and buy some lenses with the left over cash. If money is not a constraint then buy the M10 - and some lenses.

 

The other thing to remember is that all cameras have limitations, and we get used to shooting within them. Buying into rangefinders means buying into limitations of focal lengths and framing, among other things. Has that stopped great photographers taking great shots with them? No. So with the M240 accept that you may not have good performance above ISO3200, and continue to take great shots at lower ISO.

Edited September 23, 2017 by LocalHero1953

[Clactonian]

Very happy with my M240, which after the initial shock of using a CMOS sensor, was hailed as a great camera. That hasn't changed with the introduction of the M10.

[thedirektor]

Very happy with my M240, which after the initial shock of using a CMOS sensor, was hailed as a great camera. That hasn't changed with the introduction of the M10.

 

What was your "initial shock" ? 

[Clactonian]

What was your "initial shock" ? 

 

Badly phrased on my part. The 'shock' if I can call it that seemed to come from the Leica fraternity.

[jevidon]

 It is really a question of economics. There M10 appears to have a much superior sensor and ISO range, but they say that the M240 has a better dynamic range.

The M240 has the 'Italian Flag' syndrome with wide angle lenses and I understand that the M10 has eliminated this problem. The M10 is lighter and thinner and

has a much better EVF ( 020 ) like i have on my TL2. The M240 used the older EVF, which isn't a bad thing since it is identical to the one made by Olympus for hundreds

of dollars less and even cheaper in the used market. i paid $95 for mine. It can't compare to the new 020 model, but then again an M is primarily a rangefinder camera. 

 

I made my choice and went for a really good condition used M240 and as I noted, I added the Olympus EVF for $95. The camera is a little heavier than was my M9,

but not intolerably so. For an additional trick whether you buy the M240 or the M10, if you get the EVF, you can also buy a Novoflex lens adapter and pick up a really

good Leica R zoom lens for not a lot of money and it makes an excellent travel combination when you don't want to carry around a lot of prime lenses of different focal lengths.

On my last trip to Alaska, I carried my M240 with the EVF and mounted a Vario-Elmar-R 28-70mm f/4 as a walk-around combination. I got some really excellent shots at various

focal lengths without lens changes. Heresy? Perhaps, but very convenient.

[Ko.Fe.]

It is question of money loss strictly and with any camera brand, branch, models. And not only with cameras. If you are ready to lost more if you have to sell, buy more expensive one. 

Except, if you will buy it used. I'm not sure how many M10 are available used. Plenty of used M before M10. And you don't really need complicated and more expensive M to understand if RF is your thing.

M8 for slightly above 1K$ will do exactly the same and it is possible to sell it if you don't like it after couple of months for loss of PayPal fees. 

[Mark II]

Or just buy a film Leica, and use the money that you save to pay for developing and scanning :-)

 

I am very ambivalent about the digital M camera as, which IMO neither manage to capture the feel of shooting a film rangefinder nor the convenience and reliability of contemporary digital cameras (including Leica’s own SL). Owning both an M 262 and an M7, it is the M7 that I usually reach for unless I really need the images available instantly.

 

If you do try a digital M, I would suggest either the 240 or 262, as these are seemingly the only bodies currently available without design issues (IR contamination, sensor corrosion, faulty ISO dials, etc), and the second hand prices are reasonable. Go for the M 262 if weight matters the most, or the M 240 if you expect to need live view (eg for lenses wider than 28mm, or for accurate focus with longer/faster lenses).

 

FWIW, I have a review of the M 262 on my blog which is written (I hope) from the perspective of a someone interested in the results rather than the brand or how much polishing went in to the casing...

[Tailwagger]

Hello all. I'm wondering if you can help me decide.

For a first time M user, get a gently used M240 or just go M10? I'm thinking if a rangefinder is not for me...

TIA

 

Ahh... but what if it is?  Thats the rub.  In the end, if you are smitten and as GAS expands into the void, things can wind up costing you more.  

 

That said, and having both a 240 and 10, the advantages provided by the 10 are real, but by no mean mandatory. The 10 is just a better 240, say 10-20% or so in all the things that matter OVF, EVF, speed, size, DR, WB, color rendition, etc.  I prefer the 10, but I've no desire to sell my 240. In general it goes every where the 10 goes and outside of high iso or wide DR situations, the process of decision making around which camera to grab from the bag comes largely down to which lens is attached.

 

The real thing to consider is the initial choice of glass any way particularly if  $$$ are a serious concern.   Decide about the glass, not body, first. Then see how much coin is left over for the body.  

Edited September 26, 2017 by Tailwagger

[jcatral14]

Thank you guys! I appreciate the responses and I think I am leaning towards the M240 at this point so I can pour more resources into lenses. I am thinking of purchasing a 35/1.4 first then a 50/1.4. Will keep you all abreast on what happens.

HAGWE!

[jcatral14]

Thank you all! I have committed to an M240! Now the hard part is waiting for it lol. I'm looking to get a Summaron 28/5.6 and ASPH 50/1.4 to start I look forward to learning and contributing to this forum

[Fleetenkiecker]

​Good Afternoon Jcatral 14

Congratulation on your decision.Enjoy the Leica M 240 which I also own, now for 4 years. And  am still happy with it.

But why do want to buy the Summaron ? 

Nice lens, but buy the new Elmarit 2,8 28 mm, stop down to 5,6 will give you the same results. 

This is my experience. And I love the new Elmarit especially for street.

Perhaps your dealer let you test both.

I wish you a good choice.

 

regards from Munich the Oktoberfest Town

Andreas

[jcatral14]

​Good Afternoon Jcatral 14

Congratulation on your decision.Enjoy the Leica M 240 which I also own, now for 4 years. And  am still happy with it.

But why do want to buy the Summaron ? 

Nice lens, but buy the new Elmarit 2,8 28 mm, stop down to 5,6 will give you the same results. 

This is my experience. And I love the new Elmarit especially for street.

Perhaps your dealer let you test both.

I wish you a good choice.

 

regards from Munich the Oktoberfest Town

Andreas

Hi Andrreas,

Sorry for the late reply. I am drawn to street photography and the 28 Summaron with it's small physical size and aperture will allow me to take pictures unnoticed and can zone focus quite accurately. Also the Summaron lends a very unique signature to the image which I quite like :-)

Many thanks for your input :-)

Best,

Jay

[colonel]

There's no such thing as a value for money analysis in Leica world, so if you can afford the M10 and you like it then buy it. The only thing you are likely to gain from the M240 is the video option - everything else on the M10 is better: smaller, lighter, better OVF/EVF/RF, better interface, better IQ and high ISO performance.

 

BUT, and IMO, only a little bit better. I don't have the M10, but I've tried it; I also had the M9, and I have the M240, the SL and the TL2 - I can see where the M10 is going. The M240 was, again IMO, a much bigger step forward in all round performance, and some aspects of the M9 drove me nuts. Little about the M240 drives me nuts in the same way.

 

So, if money is a constraint, get the M240 and buy some lenses with the left over cash. If money is not a constraint then buy the M10 - and some lenses.

 

The other thing to remember is that all cameras have limitations, and we get used to shooting within them. Buying into rangefinders means buying into limitations of focal lengths and framing, among other things. Has that stopped great photographers taking great shots with them? No. So with the M240 accept that you may not have good performance above ISO3200, and continue to take great shots at lower ISO.

The M240 and M10 are the same weight

The battery on the M240 lasts quite a bit longer

The M240 has. 0.68 RF, the M10 is 0.72, so it depends on your eyes and what you shoot but I like the 25mm Zeiss and also 28mm and the 0.68 is slightly more convenient

Wifi on the M10 is useful for indoor shooting

ISO on the M10 is clean up to 6400

The M10 is 3mm thinner depending on the edge of the body

 

The M240 is clean up to 1600 and should only be shot at 3200 if you are not going to push the exposure.

 

They are of similar general usage

 

IMHO get what you want. The fact that an excellent condition M240 is half the price of a new M10 is significant for the first Leica and is worth up to four lenses so it's up to you ...

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Hallo,

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[colonel]

Hi Andrreas,

Sorry for the late reply. I am drawn to street photography and the 28 Summaron with it's small physical size and aperture will allow me to take pictures unnoticed and can zone focus quite accurately. Also the Summaron lends a very unique signature to the image which I quite like :-)

Many thanks for your input :-)

Best,

Jay

The summaron is only 5.6 and the nature of the M series is that for most shots you need to hold up to your eyes so the extra few centimetres on the lens is irrelevant

 

IMHO you are much better off with the Leica 28m f2.8 and if you want to save some cash for a few milimeters then how about the Zeiss 28m f2.8

 

Lastly I use the Voigtlander 28mm f2.

If you can cope with the focus shift between f2.8 and f5.6 or just shoot either f2 or over f5.6 it's a bargain.

 

Have fun