Classic cine lens for M mount

[reddot925]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

After seeing this interview by Bigheadtaco of Jeffo Wong

 

 

I'm beginning to get intrigued by cine lens, names such as Angenieux, Dallmeyer, etc. used for photo on an M9 or M10, but at the same time also lost as to where to find, which lens covers full frame, and which conversion to M mount is a good one.

 

Any recommendation on which of these lens work on M mount?   35mm or 50mm is preferred.

 

Thank you.

 

[farnz]

The subject of the interview, Jeffo Wong, is a member here (Jeffojeffo) and he visits occasionally to post in The view through older glass thread.  Although it might take you some time since the thread currently has about 3,500 posts, if you look through the thread you'll see posts from Jeffo using a large range of exotic lenses some of which are C-mount cine lenses adapted for use on Leica cameras.  Typically C-mount lenses won't cover 135 mm full frame format and you'll end up with a circle of picture but the rest of the frame is black but that's because C-mount lenses were designed to be used with a smaller film size.

 

Pete.

[Advertisement]

The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[luigi bertolotti]

... and of course you must forget RF coupling... and get accustomed to a f stop scale that has nothing to do with the standard for cameras...

[reddot925]

... and of course you must forget RF coupling... and get accustomed to a f stop scale that has nothing to do with the standard for cameras...

Thanks Luigi, There seems to be some which have RF coupling but I have NO idea if they are modified , but this lens on eBay seems to say original coupling, again not disputing, just want to show you guys.

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rare-P-Angenieux-Paris-50mm-F1-8-Type-S1-original-Leica-LTM-M9-M240-RF-coupled-/311869733233?hash=item489ce27971:g:wX4AAOSwNSxVbBlx

Edited September 16, 2017 by reddot925

[reddot925]

Hi Pete, thanks for mentioning Jeffojeffo, I found his list of compatible lens in another thread, below quote from and credit to Jeffo of course.

 

Quote

 

"Below lenses are some that can be modified to M-mount with FF coverages.

 

Angenieux - S-50mm f/1.8

Angenieux - S1-50mm f/1.8

Angenieux - S-40mm f/1.8

Angenieux - S2-50mm f/1.8

Angenieux - S21-50mm f/1.5

Angenieux - P1-90mm f/1.8

Angenieux - M1-50mm f/0.95 (with slight dark corners)

 

Astro Berlin Pan Tachar : 50mm f/1.8 and f/2.3

Astro Berlin Gauss Tachar : 50mm f/2

 

Bausch & Lomb Super Balter : 50mm f/2

 

Boyer 50mm f/1.4

Boyer 50mm f/1.9

 

Dallmeyer Super Six : 1 1/2" f/2 (with slight dark corners)

Dallmeyer Super Six : 2" f/1.9 (there is LTM version)

Dallmeyer Super Six : 2 1/2" f/1.9

Dallmeyer Septac : 2" f/1.5

Dallmeyer Dallac : 85mm f/2

Dallmeyer Rareac : 39mm f/1.9

 

Corfield : 45mm f1.9

Corfield : 50mm f1.9

 

Cooke Double Speed : 40mm f/2

Taylor Hobson Cooke : 2" f/2

Taylor Hobson Cooke : 75mm f/2

Cooke Kintel : 50mm f/1.8

 

Foca : 5cm f/1.9

 

Hugo Meyer Kino Plasmat : 1 5/8" f/1.5 (there is LTM version)

Hugo Meyer Kino Plasmat : 2" f/1.5 (there is LTM version)

Hugo Meyer Kino Plasmat : 3" f/1.5 (there is LTM version)

 

Kodak Ektar : 47mm f/2

Kodak TV : 50mm f1.9

 

Kinoptik : 40mm f/2

Kinoptik : 50mm f/2

Kinoptik Fulgior : 50mm f/1.3

 

Kern : 50mm f/1.8 and f/1.9

 

Ross Xtralux 50mm f/2 (ltm version)

 

Som Berthiot : 50mm f/1.5 (ltm version)

Som Berthiot Cinor : 50mm f/2

Som Berthiot Flor : 55mm F1.5

Som Berthiot : 80mm f/2.8 (ltm version)

 

Voigtlander Nokton 50mm f/1.1

Hexanon : 57mm f/1.2

Fujinon EBC : 50mm f/1.2 , f/1.4

Zunow : 50mm f/1.1

 

Wollensak : 50mm f/1.5"

Edited September 16, 2017 by reddot925

[jaques]

interesting to see that video of Jeffo- after seeing his endless lens collection images in the View Through Older Glass thread.

 

there is one ebay seller in Italy who produces some very reasonably price M mount vintage glass creations- they have nothing currently but here are some recent offerings:

 

https://www.ebay.com.au/sch/zuwiel/m.html?_nkw&_armrs=1&_ipg&_from&LH_Complete=1&rt=nc&_trksid=p2046732.m1684

[Guest JMF]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

On 9/18/2017 at 7:11 AM, jaques said:

interesting to see that video of Jeffo- after seeing his endless lens collection images in the View Through Older Glass thread.

 

there is one ebay seller in Italy who produces some very reasonably price M mount vintage glass creations- they have nothing currently but here are some recent offerings:

 

https://www.ebay.com.au/sch/zuwiel/m.html?_nkw&_armrs=1&_ipg&_from&LH_Complete=1&rt=nc&_trksid=p2046732.m1684

I have bought some time ago  a couple of Zuwiel adapted lenses and have to say that they are not properly RF coupled, only focussing correctly at infinity...

[Ecar]

6 hours ago, JMF said:

I have bought some time ago  a couple of Zuwiel adapted lenses and have to say that they are not properly RF coupled, only focussing correctly at infinity...

+1.

Also, the conversions are a bit crude and the lenses themselves not the cleanest samples. This probably explains the moderate prices.

[Guest JMF]

5 hours ago, Ecar said:

+1.

Also, the conversions are a bit crude and the lenses themselves not the cleanest samples. This probably explains the moderate prices.

I managed to get a nice Kodak Ektar 47 f2 from that ebay seller so it was still worth it !

Edited February 14, 2019 by JMF

[zeitz]

You are faced with a number of issues when selecting a lens for conversion.

The nodal point of the lens must be the focal length's distance from the focal plane.  The nodal point is roughly in the middle of the lens.  The Leica M body is 27.8 mm thick.  As the focal length gets shorter, there are fewer options that will fit close enough. 35mm SLRs use retrofocus designs to get around the problem.  Jeffo implies that 50mm and longer are his favorite lenses.  I wonder how many 35mm focal length lenses he has found that will physically fit in the right location on an M.

If the lens is to be rangefinder coupled, the pitch of the focusing mount must match what the cam movement that the Leica rangefinder is designed for.  The most direct option is to find an old Leica lens of the same focal length, removed the Leitz glass and install the subject lens in the right location.  Note that the required pitch of focusing mounts is different for every focal length, so the focal length the mount was designed for must match the focal length of the lens.

Many of the lenses listed are rare and highly sought after by collectors.  The net result is that this gets expensive rapidly.  Converting the lens to M mount instantly lowers the value of the lens to a collector.  So when it comes time to resell, you must find a user who wants a converted lens.

If you don't have the machining skills and tools to do the conversion yourself, you must find a skilled camera repairman who does such work.  I think in the United States only S K Grimes would take on such a job.  Japan and the UK probably have many more options.

[pgk]

For anyone interested in cine lenses then this link might prove useful: https://cookeoptics.com/t/history.html I know that some Cooke Speed Panchros have been converted to Leica M and even today they can be refurbished (not by Cooke themselves but by a specialist near Cooke) and fitted into modern cine mount systems - doing so makes Leica conversions seem cheap! Cooke Optics exist and their ancestry is interesting because Taylor Hobson (another Leica connection) were absorbed in the Rank Organisation from where Cooke came from so they are a sort of continuation I suppose (although Rank absorbed other British lens manufacturers  and other spin offs an associated businesses still survive in specialist markets to this day). I believe that Cooke are the last manufacturer to produce large format lenses which are still available new.

[BernardC]

On 2/14/2019 at 1:25 PM, zeitz said:

The nodal point of the lens must be the focal length's distance from the focal plane.  The nodal point is roughly in the middle of the lens.  The Leica M body is 27.8 mm thick.  As the focal length gets shorter, there are fewer options that will fit close enough. 35mm SLRs use retrofocus designs to get around the problem.  Jeffo implies that 50mm and longer are his favorite lenses.  I wonder how many 35mm focal length lenses he has found that will physically fit in the right location on an M.

Cine lenses that were made for reflex (spinning mirror) movie cameras have enough clearance behind the rear element. These generally have a mount name with "flex" in it: Arriflex, Cameflex.

Lenses designed for 16mm film will not cover a full M sensor. You get a circular image. Most lenses for 35mm film will not cover either, for focal lengths of less than 50mm. There are a couple of 40mm lenses listed above that are exceptions. The Kilfitt 40 was sold in several 35mm SLR mounts back in its day (everything from Alpa to Topcon), so it's not just a cine lens.

If you think this doesn't leave a lot of choices, you are correct.  Your best bet for conversion are 50mm lenses. These will be easiest to match to the Leica's rangefinder cam.

Using old cine lenses on the SL/TL/CL in video or crop mode is a different story. You just need to find the correct adapter.