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Telephoto for M10

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I have a 90 Summicron for my M10. I have been considering a 135 or longer. What experiences and recommendations do you have for lenses to consider? I have heard differing opinions on focusing the 135. Andy comments and suggestions on this would be helpful

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135 3.4 APO #1

 

135  4.0 tele elmar for less money and/or you wish to use an optical visoflex.  This is a near APO lens.

 

135 2.8 with optical unit and/or short focus mount

 

I would not bother with older lenses. 135 Hector is decent from F 8.0.  The one after I know nothing about.

 

My tele elmar 4.0 is a lifetime keeper.    Works on bellows, extension tubes, short focus mount .  Does everything.   3.4 is a thorobred that runs fast on a track and has no other positive atributes.

 

This is not to say you can find all the bellows, tubes, short mounts, that used to be available.   

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Are you open to using EVF? Then I will suggest skipping 135 (you can crop 90) and going right to 180. I have finally settled on 180 APO Telyt 3.4.

 

Before settling on 180, I have tried:

- 135 Tele-elmar (good for IQ but RF has to be aligned properly for good results. EVF focusing is way better).

- 134 other MF lens (Konica, Minolta). Smaller with good results.

For both...not very different that crop of a sharp 90 (I use 90 macro-elmar M).

- 80-200 vario R. Very good IQ but too heavy.

 

180 APO Telyt 3.4 worls very well with 2xAPO. You get 360mm reach.

Edited by jmahto

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It's all about two factors to think of, in my opinion :

 

1) How do you like to FRAME, thinking of which kind of pictures you tend to (portrait, Street, paysage...)

2) Which kind of PRINT (i.e., dimension of) you target as final output.

 

1) 135 is a small frame inside the M OVF... one can definitely dislike it if precise framing is important, and focusing is often critical : I have used 135s for years, and have both the Tele Elmar f4 and the goggled Tele Elmarit f2,8 : both excellent, I would like to bring with me always the Tele Elmarit... the looking into the OVF is MUCH better... but isn't an easy lens to carry... with the Tele Elmar, frankly I use the dumb rule "not below f8" , setting the ISO accordingly in case.

EVF can be a good alternative... but in that case, having you the 90, why not going over ? APO Telyt 180 is still a great lens, not difficult to find nor too costly (I bought one this year....)

 

I quote 180 because you'd say "135 or longer"... and also also because

 

2) If you don't print larger than A4... M does well support to crop a 90 to 135 with negligible loss (and if you don't print, but stay on screen... it's really the same, practically)

Edited by luigi bertolotti

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My post and Jmahto's intermixed... reading his one, I can add that I'm also thinking seriously to the 2xAPO... carrying around my Telyt 400 is becoming really an annoyance..

... and final aperture, by chance, is exactly the same (3,4 - 6,8) ... so that I think that the sight into EVF would be no worst. Edited by luigi bertolotti

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My post and Jmahto's intermixed... reading his one, I can add that I'm also thinking seriously to the 2xAPO... carrying around my Telyt 400 is becoming really an annoyance..

... and final aperture, by chance, is exactly the same (3,4 - 6,8) ... so that I think that the sight into EVF would be no worst.

Luigi, I found 180 Telyt APO 3.4 to be a revelation in search for long lens. I played with many 135s and one 180 (the excellent Voigtlander lanthar) and many doublers and finally concluded that 180 Telyt APO 3.4 beats them all in both IQ and handling. Using it with 2XAPO was a wonderful surprise. I compared that with 400 Telyt 6.8 and I love the sharpness from corner to corner. 400 Telyt is sharp only in the center.

 

Having said that, 400 Telyt has its usage too. I used it with 2X APO to get 800mm and shot the following Sunspot during eclipse. It is sharp like hell around center and wonderful for 800mm usage where you don't need sharpness from corner to corner (like the shot below or for birding).

 

With 180 APO Telyt 3.4, 2XAPO and 400 Telyt 6.8, I am all set for long teles. If I need AF (I don't) then I will go for Jaap's setup (micro 4/3 with 100-400 Leica lens).

 

400 Telyt 6.8 + 2XAPO on Nex6 (slightly cropped)

 

(cropped more for sunspot)

Edited by jmahto

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I have a 90 Summicron for my M10. I have been considering a 135 or longer. What experiences and recommendations do you have for lenses to consider? I have heard differing opinions on focusing the 135. Andy comments and suggestions on this would be helpful

BTW, I forgot to say welcome to the forum.

Just now saw the post count.

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I used to have the 135/3.4 but sold it because what it has over the f/4 T-E wasn't worth the cash tied up in it. And the f/4 non-Tele is very nearly as good. Any of these lenses can be tricky to focus even with a perfectly calibrated rangefinder, because they all date from pre-digital times. My Elmar was spot-on, pure luck. My T-E needed calibration, in fact so much that some machining was required. Now it's spot on also. In mint condition these lenses sell for <$500, making them amazing bargains considering it's Leica.

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I used to have the 135/3.4 but sold it because what it has over the f/4 T-E wasn't worth the cash tied up in it. And the f/4 non-Tele is very nearly as good. Any of these lenses can be tricky to focus even with a perfectly calibrated rangefinder, because they all date from pre-digital times. My Elmar was spot-on, pure luck. My T-E needed calibration, in fact so much that some machining was required. Now it's spot on also. In mint condition these lenses sell for <$500, making them amazing bargains considering it's Leica.

I agree with 135 T-E and 180/3.4 comment. They are close. However for me the value of 180/3.4 is by doubling it using 2XAPO. It becomes a versatile long reach solution. And for above 90mm I am convinced that EVF is a must. There is no point coming back from the shoot relying on my luck for sharp focus.

 

At the same time my small 90mm macro-elmar-M has made my 135mm T-E f/4 obsolete since I can easily crop that.

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...

 

180 APO Telyt 3.4 worls very well with 2xAPO. You get 360mm reach.

 

Sorry for starting again. 

 

Does the 1:3.4/180 Apo really take the 2xApo-Extender?

 

I looked it up in all Leitz Handbooks I have from the times the lens was sold and never found any mentioning of the lenses compatibility with the Apo-Extender.

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Yes it does without problem, however it will not take the 1.4x APO-Extender. The 2x APO extender is compatible with all R lenses.

And steer away from the older non-APO 2x extender. The quality is - let's be charitable - adequate, but the APO version is more than excellent.

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Sorry for starting again. 

 

Does the 1:3.4/180 Apo really take the 2xApo-Extender?

 

I looked it up in all Leitz Handbooks I have from the times the lens was sold and never found any mentioning of the lenses compatibility with the Apo-Extender.

Yes. 180APO Telyt 3.4 takes 2XAPO extender. I use it all the time with very good success. In fact after extender it becomes even more ergonomic because focus ring moves further away and falls just in the right place.

 

Apart from optical property, I found this lens (and extender combo) very easy to use and focus handheld. I also have Voigtlander 180 Lanthar which is equally sharp but a PITA to focus at infinity due to short focus through. Even my 400 Telyt 6.8 is more difficult to focus in comparison (I like focus by rotation more than push pull action). I have more confidence in getting shots in focus using this lens (both using M240 EVF and also on Nex6).

 

Following both pictures are only with 180 Telyt on M240 (without extender). Strolling on the beach.

 

Half cropped (almost 400mm equivalent. Sharp enough for A4 print).

Edited by jmahto

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Jaap and I replied at the same time.

Yes, you have to be careful of 1.4 APO extender due to protrusion. It won't fit in many lenses.

 

Having said that, I really don't understand the use of 1.4 extender in digital age. Simply by cropping (half in megapixel ~ 1/1.4th in linear dimension) one can get 1.4 magnification. If you are happy with 12mp pic crop then you don't need 1.4 extender. (one can use the same logic for x2 extender but then you get only 6mp crop that may not be sufficient). This is why I see usefulness for 2X extender but not 1.4X.

 

I can also simply use the APS-C sensor (assuming same megapixel, resulting into smaller pixel pitch) and get 1.4X magnification.

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And if you crop from the 1.4x ? 

Why crop from 1.4x when you can crop from 2x!

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Indeed, and lose another stop in lens speed.

Well, compensate for aperture with high ISO and low shutter speed. Welcome to the brave new digital world (I know you know this well with your new setup).

 

http://blog.kasson.com/the-last-word/a7ii-ibis-with-the-180mm-apo-telyt-r/

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To use the Leica R adapter M 14642, does the R lens need to be ROM ? does 3 cam work also ? 

My R lens is not ROM. Therefore answer is "no" for the first part. For the second part, I am guessing answer is "no" as well (since I have not read about any such restriction anywhere).

Edited by jmahto

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