New Buyer's Advice

[spydrxx]

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For 2 years I had an M6TTL along with my trusted longtime owned M4. The vf flare was annoying, although not a deal killer. In my case, the size (or apparent size) annoyed me and the metering wasn't quite what I expected. So, in the end I sold it and lost no money. Based on my experience, I'd definitely encourage you to visit dealers and get one in your hands before forking over your cash...you might find that it isn't the right camera for you. Personally, I like the M4 and M2, although the M3 would be nice if I was mostly a 50mm person. Due to my failing eyesight, I'm having much more fun these days with an older Barnack iiF, which I find easier to focus with its built in telescopic diopter.

[jaapv]

That's possible, I never used a M6 TTL. I can only tell that my M7 has much less of this issue than my M6 Classic. The M7 tends to "fix" itself a second after the flare occurs by re-shifting somehow the focus patch a bit. The M6 totally blanks out, the patch turns sort of reddish (focusing no longer possible) and it only comes back by shaking the camera a bit. I reduced this issue by a home-made solution and taped some polarizer foil from 3D glasses onto the frame line finder window (not the viewfinder window of course!). It reduces the brightness of the frame lines a bit, but it reduces the patch flare quite significantly for no cost.

if the patch turns reddish there is a finger in front of the window

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[Martin B]

if the patch turns reddish there is a finger in front of the window

 nops, seriously, it happens often with the angle to the sun that the longer waved red light somehow is interfering within this issue. It's just a side effect of the main flare effect. 

[michaelwj]

Note that the electronics on both types M6 cannot be repaired any more. The M6 will be able to be shot as a manual camera, in that case, the M6TTL, whilst being able to be used as a daylight camera, will have lost its flash sync too.

Jaapv, I was of the belief that the M6 circuit board is interchangeable with the MP, which is still available and will be for some time. Am I wrong?

[michaelwj]

To the OP, if you haven't used an M before then do you have a friend who has? If you are to buy online with a return policy, then it is important that someone who knows what they're doing and you can trust takes a look at the camera. Other than that, ensure you run a roll of film through it ASAP to check shutter speeds are accurate and there are no other shutter related issues.

And get the classic. It's cooler!

[jaapv]

Jaapv, I was of the belief that the M6 circuit board is interchangeable with the MP, which is still available and will be for some time. Am I wrong?

There have been cameras returned with "out  of parts"  by Leica.

[Martin B]

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To the OP, if you haven't used an M before then do you have a friend who has? If you are to buy online with a return policy, then it is important that someone who knows what they're doing and you can trust takes a look at the camera. Other than that, ensure you run a roll of film through it ASAP to check shutter speeds are accurate and there are no other shutter related issues.

And get the classic. It's cooler!

 

Its no security either that things can go downhill. I bought a M3 from a friend of mine who handed it to me for a few weeks before making the purchase to examine it. I shot two films, all went well. Just days after I purchased it and put another film in, the shutter was stuck. I had to send it in for CLA - it's now working well again but it was no longer such good deal which I hoped to get in the beginning with paying in addition for CLA. It might help to look out for a newer model M6 which reduces the risk of some needed additional maintenance work. The serial number is a good indicator here which sellers normally provide. In such case, purchasing online is as good as buying it in a store. 

Edited September 6, 2017 by Martin B

[earleygallery]

Its no security either that things can go downhill. I bought a M3 from a friend of mine who handed it to me for a few weeks before making the purchase to examine it. I shot two films, all went well. Just days after I purchased it and put another film in, the shutter was stuck. I had to send it in for CLA - it's now working well again but it was no longer such good deal which I hoped to get in the beginning with paying in addition for CLA. It might help to look out for a newer model M6 which reduces the risk of some needed additional maintenance work. The serial number is a good indicator here which sellers normally provide. In such case, purchasing online is as good as buying it in a store.

This is why I suggested buying from a dealer with a warranty. Dealers offer between 3-12 months warranty on used items typically.

 

Particularly useful for someone new to the M who may not uncover any issues until they've finished a roll or The of film.

Edited September 6, 2017 by earleygallery

[johnwolf]

If you want to use it buy the cheapest, if you want to collect it and pamper it and gaze at it lovingly buy the most expensive.

 

I use mine as well as pamper and gaze lovingly at it. You can do both. 

 

John 

[pico]

From an owner of two M7s and several early Ms, I would go for the M6 Classic.

[M9reno]

I have two TTL's - a 0.85x and a 0.72x Millennium.  Both had their viewfinder flare-proofed at reasonable cost by a local tech.  Very happy with both.

 

Only issues I've ever noticed is with mounting the 0.85x on the BOOWU copy stand (for copy work) - the frame selector gets in the way of the BOOWU mount - this is a minor and laughably specific quibble!

 

Rather more seriously, the Millennium did not meter correctly when first delivered.  This problem was quickly fixed by the seller, and subsequently looked over by Leica Solms - and no problems since.   This a special edition camera, but special not just for its looks - it has the very nice M3/M2-style all-metal film-advance, and has a brass as opposed to zinc body shell.

 

The TTL functionality is of the M6TTL is actually a useful add-on - there is a dedicated Leica flash (SF20) that works perfectly with this camera.  The direction of the speed dial on the M6TTL is not only more intuitive (the arrow in the viewfinder points in the direction in which you should turn the speed dial), but easier and quicker to operate with your index finger.

Edited September 6, 2017 by M9reno

[CRTZMO]

All M6 models have it onwards up to the latest M-P camera series which has much better ant-flare glass coating and uses different parts in the rangefinder, so the M-P obviously doesn't has this issue anymore. But from what I read and personally experience it is most severe on the M6 (and I have also the M3 and the M7).

Understood – thank you.

 

 

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[CRTZMO]

For 2 years I had an M6TTL along with my trusted longtime owned M4. The vf flare was annoying, although not a deal killer. In my case, the size (or apparent size) annoyed me and the metering wasn't quite what I expected. So, in the end I sold it and lost no money. Based on my experience, I'd definitely encourage you to visit dealers and get one in your hands before forking over your cash...you might find that it isn't the right camera for you. Personally, I like the M4 and M2, although the M3 would be nice if I was mostly a 50mm person. Due to my failing eyesight, I'm having much more fun these days with an older Barnack iiF, which I find easier to focus with its built in telescopic diopter.

Well noted – thank you spydrxx. The first purchase, lots to consider!

 

 

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[CRTZMO]

To the OP, if you haven't used an M before then do you have a friend who has? If you are to buy online with a return policy, then it is important that someone who knows what they're doing and you can trust takes a look at the camera. Other than that, ensure you run a roll of film through it ASAP to check shutter speeds are accurate and there are no other shutter related issues.

And get the classic. It's cooler!

Hi Michael, thanks for the advice. I have spent many visits to various camera shops and have talked with a half-dozen Leica owners about their suggested first camera (of course a half-dozen unique responses).

 

Your reply gets to the essence of my post – what in particular will an experienced Leica user be on the lookout for? I assume things like smooth film transfer, properly seating lens with appropriate frame lines, consistent shutter speeds at all settings, light meter response to shutter and aperture adjustments, clean and clear optics – universal to most cameras. The Leica-specific oddities are what I'm most curious about. Oh, and I do understand that there is a "it just feels right" aspect to measurement that only comes from experience, and is a far more complex and subtle indicator than a binary works/doesn't work checklist! :-)

 

Thanks again for your advice. Very helpful.

 

 

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[CRTZMO]

I have two TTL's - a 0.85x and a 0.72x Millennium. Both had their viewfinder flare-proofed at reasonable cost by a local tech. Very happy with both.

 

Only issues I've ever noticed is with mounting the 0.85x on the BOOWU copy stand (for copy work) - the frame selector gets in the way of the BOOWU mount - this is a minor and laughably specific quibble!

 

Rather more seriously, the Millennium did not meter correctly when first delivered. This problem was quickly fixed by the seller, and subsequently looked over by Leica Solms - and no problems since. This a special edition camera, but special not just for its looks - it has the very nice M3/M2-style all-metal film-advance, and has a brass as opposed to zinc body shell.

 

The TTL functionality is of the M6TTL is actually a useful add-on - there is a dedicated Leica flash (SF20) that works perfectly with this camera. The direction of the speed dial on the M6TTL is not only more intuitive (the arrow in the viewfinder points in the direction in which you should turn the speed dial), but easier and quicker to operate with your index finger.

Thank you, M9reno. I understand from post responses and the Internet-at-large prefers the Classic M6, but I do use flash regularly and your mention of a perfectly working TTL solution is hard not to consider.

 

On the flare-proofing topic, may I ask what the tech did?

 

Cheers!

 

 

 

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[colonel]

I'm now looking for a mint M6/0.72 on eBay (there are many), and wish to ask the forum's advice on points to consider before purchase and upon receipt of the body. Please note:

• I live in Japan and am only looking at dealers in Japan with stellar ratings that offer 15-30 day returns

• visible/published serial number of camera for sale; clean and cosmetically near-mint

• Well studied but have not owned a Leica before; undecided about M6 Classic vs TTL

• Leica has an excellent service center in Tokyo – happy to pay for a service check

Thank you in advance for advice and insights — all comments appreciated!

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Get the M6 TTL, avoid the classic M6

 

Much better speed dial that rotates in the right way

+2ev light meter sensitivity

Better in the hand and for faster lenses

Off button prevents battery drain in bag if shutter brushed

Better wind on lever

Additional centre dot in VF meter, easier to read then M6

Newer model so not as old, less chance of issue

Rarer, easier to sell at premium

Edited September 6, 2017 by colonel

[michaelwj]

Your reply gets to the essence of my post – what in particular will an experienced Leica user be on the lookout for? 

 

Framelines: the lever will move the pairs of framelines. It shouldn't stick and the framelines should snap clearly into view. You don't need to put lenses on.

 

Rewind crank: make sure the axle is straight, turn it rapidly when empty - there should be no wobble or excessive stiffness.

 

Film advance: Advance the film as normal, release the advance lever back to its resting position. You should now be able to rest your thumb behind the advance lever (as if you want to keep advancing gently) and take a shot with gentle pressure on the advance lever. It shouldn't jam. Instead it should just release the lever to advance to the next frame where you should be able to take the next shot without releasing the advance lever. A properly working camera should handle this test with no problems, but if anything is worn or not adjusted properly then it will jam. It is a good test on the shutter/advance system that will highlight issues just taking photos casually won't. 

 

RF: The cam wheel should spin freely and the RF should follow focus from infinity to 0.7m (attach a lens and check). The patch should be aligned and of course the glass should be clear (some dust is inevitable)

 

Of course general things like shutter curtains, but the above is what I do for a Leica.

 

Enjoy.

[Sandokan]

The best M7 is the Zeiss Ikon. But its not a Leica and not an M6. I like the fact that the M7 has auto-aperture. For situations where the light varies, the manual readjustment does slow me down or makes me mis-exposure by a few stops.  

 

I have an M7 0.72x and M6 0.85x. Both were fixed for viewfinder flare by Leica Switzerland for free when my dealer sent them in (M7 just for the viewfinder and the M6 for CLA).  I do recommend a CLA unless it had one in the last 5 years. 

 

For 50 and 90mm lenses - I love my M3. The M6 0.85x (the magnification of the viewfinder - 0.72x is normal) is also great for the 50, 75 and 90 lenses. 

 

Between the M6 and M6TTL - choose the one you pick up and like the feel in your hands. 

[M9reno]

On the flare-proofing topic, may I ask what the tech did?

 

 

As far as I can remember, it entailed no more than replacing one of the cameras' viewfinder elements, which is uncoated, with a coated version.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[colonel]

Thank you, M9reno. I understand from post responses and the Internet-at-large prefers the Classic M6, but I do use flash regularly and your mention of a perfectly working TTL solution is hard not to consider.

 

On the flare-proofing topic, may I ask what the tech did?

 

Cheers!

 

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

that's the right decision

 

The M6TTL was a improvement of the M6 - kind of the perfection of the series before AE came in with the M7

 

The reason that more people favour the M6 is simply because it was available for a much longer period and many more of them were sold and therefore there are many more on the market.

There are less M6TTL's on the market and they are more expensive.

 

If one comes up go for it. If you want to save cash and get something more readily then the M6 classic is a fine camera.

 

The main reason I use the TTL is really the speed wheel (as well as the extra 2ev sensitivity on the light meter - good for lower light). The wheel on the M6 is too small and stiff, and you end up using the aperture wheel much more. I am more of a aperture priority person, and I found on the M6 I shaved off the skin on my finger a bit

 

The flare issue is an issue with all M6 and early M7, nothing to do with the M6TTL particularly. The VF can be improved by Leica but they charge. Personally I never found it an issue ... I would say the MP VF is more of a nice to have

 

Its also taste at the end of the day

Edited September 7, 2017 by colonel