Deliberate1 Posted September 5, 2017 Share #1 Posted September 5, 2017 Advertisement (gone after registration) Let me anticipate the response I might give if someone else posed the question. Why bother to extrapolate the exposure data from an S to a large format (4x5) when you have the S. Well, just because. I got a Toyo box and some lenses several years before the latest and greatest technological advances made digital photography the go-to medium for most. I also have a freezer full of Fuji Quick-Loads and Kodak Ready-Loads waiting to be called into service. At about the same time, I purchased an extraordinary Scitex Eversmart Professional II photo scanner from a magazine publisher at a cost that approximated 7% of its original price tag. Digital capture did to large format scanners the same thing it did to large and medium format film cameras. And to be sure, as time passed, I have had so much promiscuous joy shooting my M9 and S (006) that I have earned my stripes as a "digital slut," a term I coined to describe some of my pals who shot Nikon full frame sensors, at several frames per second, while I was still changing film cartridges for my beloved Rollei 6008. Truth be known, I still shoot the digital boxes, much as I would one did film, though with a bit more abandon. My wife and I are soon traveling to Monhegan Island (https://www.tripadvisor.com/Attraction_Review-g40748-d283457-Reviews-Monhegan_Island-Monhegan Island_Maine.html.) It is a small jut of land that lies approximately 12 nautical miles off the Maine coast where I live. It is a tiny place with an even smaller year-round population (appx 50). But those with an eye for the glory of nature have flocked here for well over a century to paint, and later to shoot images. Rockwell Kent painted there, and Jamie Wyeth lives in his old place, and can be seen traipsing about. On any given day, there are more easels on the island than humans. The blend of lobster fishermen and artists, and those that come to watch both, makes for a very interesting mix. There are few luxuries, but staples are well-provided. Like the brewery at trail's end, run by the local constable. The island is criss-crossed with trails that make the small rock seem far grander in scale. The proverbial "hound-dog mile." The must-do trip is the perimeter walk, which will take most of the day, especially at a photographer's pace. Heights can reach a dizzying 150' above the bold coast below. This is not so much a place for sun-bathing as it is a place to reacquaint oneself with the miracle of nature's wonder - a solid mass out of place in its surroundings under constant assault. So enough of the travelogue. I have shlepped my S here with good effect. But I am contemplating taking along the Toyo 45A with a couple lenses, all for selected shots. Will the results be "better" than the S. Perhaps, or not. But it is the process that I want to revisit. And Monhegan is the perfect place to do that. But at about $8.00 per shot for film and processing, I would like to increase my chances for success, at least with respect to exposures. And that brings me to the question. If I shoot a scene with the S, can I extrapolate that same data to the LF box and expect a similar exposure? This would assume that I use the same lens perspective, ASA setting (100), f stop and shutter speed. Thanks for any insight into this process. If it does not work for reasons revealed to me, I will change out the batteries in the old Sekonic and will go "commando," photographically speaking Cheers. David Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted September 5, 2017 Posted September 5, 2017 Hi Deliberate1, Take a look here Using S as a "preview" for large format. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Jeff S Posted September 5, 2017 Share #2 Posted September 5, 2017 Light is light, but it helps to know how your camera meters under various conditions and various metering patterns. I prefer a hand held meter... incident or spot... for LF work. Even then, it's best to know your camera.... shutter speeds, for instance, aren't always perfectly as marked. Jeff 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlashGordonPhotography Posted September 5, 2017 Share #3 Posted September 5, 2017 I think it's a fine idea. You'd need to test your cameras against eachother to "calibrate" them. You may also get away with a smaller camera. But with the S you'd have a back up file that would still be very nice. Gordon Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deliberate1 Posted September 5, 2017 Author Share #4 Posted September 5, 2017 (edited) Light is light, but it helps to know how your camera meters under various conditions and various metering patterns. I prefer a hand held meter... incident or spot... for LF work. Even then, it's best to know your camera.... shutter speeds, for instance, aren't always perfectly as marked. Jeff Good point. Seems to me that I could meter with the Sekonic and compare its recommendation to the on-board meter in the Leica. Or shoot the Leica with the recommended settings from the hand held and assess the results. I am not so concerned with scenes that are uniformly illuminated. They are easily metered. The challenge, as always, is when the light spans the Zones.Thanks Jeff and Gordon. Edited September 5, 2017 by Deliberate1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted September 6, 2017 Share #5 Posted September 6, 2017 The challenge, as always, is when the light spans the Zones.Thanks Jeff and Gordon. In my LF days, a calibrated Pentax spot meter with zone markings was ideal, especially when combined with film speed and development time tests to better ensure a consistent workflow. Roll film didn't provide the same shot to shot flexibility, but today's digital cameras, with histograms, have helped solve that. An S makes an expensive substitute for a digital spot meter...but sure makes a nice backup! Jeff 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
John McMaster Posted September 6, 2017 Share #6 Posted September 6, 2017 Put the S into 'Spot' exposure mode and your longest lens, close to a spot meter ;-) john Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deliberate1 Posted September 6, 2017 Author Share #7 Posted September 6, 2017 Advertisement (gone after registration) Put the S into 'Spot' exposure mode and your longest lens, close to a spot meter ;-) john John, thanks for yours, but clarification needed. Are you suggesting that I mount my Contax 210mm on the S (my longest), set to spot, point at the critical part of the image for exposure, and then point the Sekonic at the same spot and compare? Or am I over-analyzing given your closing winkie. Cheers Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
John McMaster Posted September 6, 2017 Share #8 Posted September 6, 2017 I would not use the Sekonic, just use the S/210 as spot meter for the different zones and expose from that, similar in use to a spot meter. john 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
albertknappmd Posted September 6, 2017 Share #9 Posted September 6, 2017 Spot meter mode for sure and then COMPARE the S and LF results carefully. Suspect they will be very similar but given Leica optics, you may be pleasantly surprised by the S ... Please show us results... Albert 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom0511 Posted September 6, 2017 Share #10 Posted September 6, 2017 I would think you would have to "syncronize" your film first to see how it compares to the sensitivity of the S-Sensor. i am also not sure if the dynamic range as well as the tone curve are comparable? 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
John McMaster Posted September 6, 2017 Share #11 Posted September 6, 2017 I would doubt that the DR is the same, but using spot readings matched to under/over mid-tone should work. john 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deliberate1 Posted September 6, 2017 Author Share #12 Posted September 6, 2017 (edited) Spot meter mode for sure and then COMPARE the S and LF results carefully. Suspect they will be very similar but given Leica optics, you may be pleasantly surprised by the S ... Please show us results... Albert Albert, are you suggesting a "science experiment." If so, more "tools" are in (on) order for verification. "Yes, dear. I do have a room full of photo gear. But sacrifices must be made in the name of science. Albert said so...." Edited September 6, 2017 by Deliberate1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest NEIL-D-WILLIAMS Posted September 6, 2017 Share #13 Posted September 6, 2017 David I use an app on my iPhone "Marl II Viewfinder" for competition purposes and then use a spot meter collecting roughly 6 meter readings 3 shadow and 3 highlights. I let the meter average them out then I use the 'Suppository" app to calculate and bellows factor (probably don't need that for a landscape shot) but if you do then I just calculate all that and take the picture. If you are in a changing light situation then I just change the initial number in the reciprocity app to get the new number.............works like a dream Neil 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest NEIL-D-WILLIAMS Posted September 6, 2017 Share #14 Posted September 6, 2017 Also the thought of dragging my S and the Chamonix to a location for a shoot would be a nightmare..................Use a light meter and just be confident in how you meter. Worst case cenaro if you mess up you burn ~$7 bucks...................you can always go back and try again ) :) Neil Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
John McMaster Posted September 6, 2017 Share #15 Posted September 6, 2017 I use an app on my iPhone "Marl II Viewfinder" for competition purposes and then use a spot meter collecting roughly 6 meter readings 3 shadow and 3 highlights. I let the meter average them out I suspect that you have not learnt the Zone System..... john Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest NEIL-D-WILLIAMS Posted September 6, 2017 Share #16 Posted September 6, 2017 (edited) I suspect that you have not learnt the Zone System..... john Your suspicions are wrong John. I know all about the zone system with 18% grey and moving from zone 5 to zone 3 or zone 7.............but the way that I chose to meter my 8x10 is by following my example in my initial post.Using the above method Thanks for asking though Neil Edited September 6, 2017 by NEIL-D-WILLIAMS Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deliberate1 Posted September 6, 2017 Author Share #17 Posted September 6, 2017 .... then I use the 'Suppository" app to calculate and bellows factor ..... Neil Neil, I can see why you would find this process irresistably moving. Indeed, I would be bellowing as well, should I have the urge to attempt it. David Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest NEIL-D-WILLIAMS Posted September 6, 2017 Share #18 Posted September 6, 2017 Neil, I can see why you would find this process irresistably moving. Indeed, I would be bellowing as well, should I have the urge to attempt it. David David. I have know idea what you are talking about.............check the app out at the app store and you will see whare I am coming from Neil Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted September 6, 2017 Share #19 Posted September 6, 2017 Average shadow/ highlight readings wouldn't provide the control I preferred. With all parameters tested and controlled in advance (meter calibration, film speed, development time, proper proof, etc), I typically metered a scene by putting the highlights where I wanted to retain detail on Zone 8 (exceptions for low contrast scenes or where longer development warranted). Average metering wouldn't reliably get me there. Locking down variables in advance is key to predictability and reliability. After that, zone readings can be used as desired, since one knows how those zones will translate in print for any given camera/lens/film/paper combination. Jeff Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
John McMaster Posted September 6, 2017 Share #20 Posted September 6, 2017 Your suspicions are wrong John. I know all about the zone system with 18% grey and moving from zone 5 to zone 3 or zone 7............. Fair enough, but does not tie in with 'then use a spot meter collecting roughly 6 meter readings 3 shadow and 3 highlights' ;-) john Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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