Leica Summilux-M 1.4/35mm ASPHERICAL

[Ivar B]

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I bought this lens new many years back and it is still unused in the box. Quite rare, I would say. I am considering selling it (perhaps an unwise decision) but a potential buyer asked if the hood was the correct one or not. Mine comes with the 12588, and I know that this is the hood it came with new as I was the first to open the box. It is argued that 12587 may be the "correct" hood.

 

I checked the Intenet, for example:

 

https://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-wiki.en/index.php/12588

 

It is listed here and also elsewhere that this lens came with 12587 OR 12 588 Hood and I see several photos of the lens with the 12588.

 

Does anyone know more about this?

Edited August 29, 2017 by Ivar B

[Sully]

Ivar,

 

I got my Aspherical Summilux when it first came out.  It has the 12587 hood.  .....Don't sell it!

 

 

 

Ciao,  Sully

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[michaelwj]

It looks like the 12587 had the old style attachment tabs, whereas the 12588 is updated to the new system that look sleeker but was more fragile as the plastic was bent when attaching and detaching the hood. I believe only one other hood had these newer style tabs before they reverted back to the tabs but I have been known to be wrong. So in a way Ivar you have the more collectible (and therefore desirable) style hood, rather than the "common" 12587 hood! You should charge a premium!

Edited August 30, 2017 by michaelwj

[01af]

It is argued that 12587 may be the "correct" hood. [...] It is listed here and also elsewhere that this lens came with 12587 or 12588 hood and I see several photos of the lens with the 12588.

Both the 12587 and 12588 are equally correct.

 

Maybe one of the two hoods is rarer today than the other, which would make it more desirable from a collector's point of view ... it's my impression the 12587 is easier to come by in today's used market. But I might be wrong, as it's based on only a few data points.

[Ivar B]

I just had an e-mail from Leica that the 12587 is the original hood, but some lenses were delivered with 12588 as "Nachfolgematerial". I speak German quite well but I don't come across this word very often, but maybe it refers to late deliveries or something. Germans - please feel free to correct! You learn something every day.

[01af]

... "Nachfolgematerial". I speak German quite well but I don't come across this word very often ...

I don't, either—and I am German living in Germany. In fact, it's the first time for me to hear this expression. It literally translates to "successor material" ... but I guess it should be interpreted as an euphemism for "next-best replacement for the original part that isn't available anymore."

[M9reno]

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I just had an e-mail from Leica that the 12587 is the original hood, but some lenses were delivered with 12588 as "Nachfolgematerial". I speak German quite well but I don't come across this word very often, but maybe it refers to late deliveries or something. Germans - please feel free to correct! You learn something every day.

In that context my guess is that the word would mean "successor" (in the sense of "replacement") model or part, but I admit that German is not my mother tongue.

[Ivar B]

I don't, either—and I am German living in Germany. In fact, it's the first time for me to hear this expression. It literally translates to "successor material" ... but I guess it should be interpreted as an euphemism for "next-best replacement for the original part that isn't available anymore."

[Ivar B]

I think this is correct. Probably Leica were out of 12587 and included 12588 with late deliveries. I noted one eBay dealer asking several hundred dollar for the 12588 saying this is the hood for AA, but since this hood was also supplied with early ASPH. it cannot be that rare.

[Moritz]

Hi Ivar,

 

the hood pictured in your link ist not the original delivered with the first Leica-M 1,4/35 ASPHERICAL

 

Not even as Nachfolgematerial.

 

Best Regards from a former owner of this lens,

 

Moritz

[UliWer]

Rare case that the Wiki in the german forum is more precise than it's international counterpart:

 

https://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-wiki.de/index.php/Gegenlichtblenden#12587

[Theodor Heinrichsohn]

I own the 35/1.4 AShPERICAL   xxx0034 and it came with the Hood 12587, which is also marked 

M28/2.8  A49.

 

Since it is one of the very early serial number lenses, and the above hood is the

one delivered with the lens, the statement in the German WIKI entry is correct.

 

Wonderful lens. I would not sell it.

Teddy

[Moritz]

Hello,

 

i surely might have been false. I did not know the 12588 yet, I knew only the 12589 with this shape. My Leica Aspherical had the 12587.

 

So this is interesting new stuff to me after 27years of knowing Leica rather well.

 

Best Regards,

 

Moritz

[Arif]

I have the same hood with mine although my lens has been heavily used so no premiums but it is a wonderful lens.

 

 it came with the Hood 12587, which is also marked 

M28/2.8  A49.

 

Since it is one of the very early serial number lenses, and the above hood is the

one delivered with the lens, the statement in the German WIKI entry is correct.

 

Wonderful lens. I would not sell it.

Teddy

[wlaidlaw]

Ivar, 

 

I quite understand your desire to sell an expensive lens that you are just not using. It is capital tied up and I would not be surprised if it was at close to peak value at the moment. If you consider the average age of Leica collectors like me, as we turn our toes up, we are no longer buying rare Leica stuff to add to our collections. I don't think there is the same volume of young Leica collectors to make up the shortfall.

 

For example, I always wanted to get examples of the 1999 special edition LTM lenses, almost wholly sold in Japan, (50 Summicron V, 50 Summilux III Pre-ASPH and 35 Summicron ASPH). When I first looked around 12 years ago, they were almost impossible to find and extremely expensive when they came on the market. I have managed to pick up mint/unused copies of both the 50 Summicron and 50 Summilux this year for little, if any more, than I would have had to pay for the regular M mount versions in similar condition. A dealer in Japan who acquired the Summicron for me, explained that the Japanese collectors who bought these lenses in 1999, often aged in their 60's, are now dying off and their wives are selling their collections, depressing Leica collector prices in Japan.

 

I am going to sell the 90-280SL lens I bought last year, even though it is a superb lens. I have used it three times, very briefly in a year. I am going to part-exchange it next spring for the 16-35SL, when it comes out, as I think I will use that a lot more. 

 

Wilson

[reddot925]

Hi Ivar, 

 

Does the 12588 fit perfectly on your lens?  

 

I'd assume so since obviously they came together, but I bought a mint AA once without a hood and could not get the 12588 to fit so finally had to track down the rather expensive 12587.

[Ozytripper]

Ivar, 

 

I quite understand your desire to sell an expensive lens that you are just not using. It is capital tied up and I would not be surprised if it was at close to peak value at the moment. If you consider the average age of Leica collectors like me, as we turn our toes up, we are no longer buying rare Leica stuff to add to our collections. I don't think there is the same volume of young Leica collectors to make up the shortfall.

 

For example, I always wanted to get examples of the 1999 special edition LTM lenses, almost wholly sold in Japan, (50 Summicron V, 50 Summilux III Pre-ASPH and 35 Summicron ASPH). When I first looked around 12 years ago, they were almost impossible to find and extremely expensive when they came on the market. I have managed to pick up mint/unused copies of both the 50 Summicron and 50 Summilux this year for little, if any more, than I would have had to pay for the regular M mount versions in similar condition. A dealer in Japan who acquired the Summicron for me, explained that the Japanese collectors who bought these lenses in 1999, often aged in their 60's, are now dying off and their wives are selling their collections, depressing Leica collector prices in Japan.

 

I am going to sell the 90-280SL lens I bought last year, even though it is a superb lens. I have used it three times, very briefly in a year. I am going to part-exchange it next spring for the 16-35SL, when it comes out, as I think I will use that a lot more. 

 

Wilson

Hi Wilson,

do you think it is a general rend that vintage (collectable) Leica lenses seems to be dropping in price across the board or it it a selective dropping dependent on the model?

I noticed that the 50mm F1.0 58mm version seems to be creeping up in price while the 60mm versions are coming down slightly.

Those Japanses version LTM lenses you mentioned are coming down in price as mentioned - is that more due to the fact that an LTM version is not perceived to be as desireable as an M mount version with perhaps less people using screw mount cameras?

 

Ivar,

mine came with the 12587 hood. Looks like both hoods are useable on this 35mm AA lens

[wlaidlaw]

Ivar, 

 

The LTM special edition lenses are dual purpose, which to my way of thinking, should enhance their value rather than depressing it. You can use them with either Rayqual or Voigtlander type 2 LTM to M adapters on digital M and SL cameras plus with the standard Leica adapter on film M's. The Summilux SE V.3 is my lens of choice on the M7 or M4. I checked with both the Rayqual and Leica adapters on my M240 and the focus was spot on, so no accuracy focus downside from using an LTM lens. However, they both (SE Summicron 50 and Summilux 50) may be perceived as film lenses, with the ASPH 50 Summilux and APO 50 Summicron being the digital lenses and this may be depressing the prices. I actually prefer the rendition of the V3 Summilux to the V4 ASPH Summilux I used to have, with its gentler bokeh and softer edge contrast. I seem to have been very lucky again, like I was with my 35 ASPH Summilux and my 50 Summilux V.3 seems to have very modest aperture shift, which was reputed to be its Achilles heel, which certainly on film, you can effectively ignore. 

 

Leica film equipment does seem to be in a gentle decline in price. I picked up a mint (seemingly rarely if ever used) IIIg for €500 earlier this year and only paid £1250 for an excellent condition factory serviced and upgraded (optical DX reader) M7 with Motor-M in July. I am sure I would have had to pay higher prices than those, three or four years ago. For reasons I explained above the generation of Japanese, who were very keen Leica collectors and buyers seems to be coming to an end and the next generation is less interested in buying expensive collector Leica items. You only have to look at the number of unused special edition M6 kits coming on the market at present, at sensible prices. They must be coming out of Japan like the Special Edition LTM lenses. I was interested in one of those until I heard that Leica had run out of replacement M6 circuit boards. 

 

Wilson

[luigi bertolotti]

..I noticed that the 50mm F1.0 58mm version seems to be creeping up in price while the 60mm versions are coming down slightly....

Probably the Noctilux f1 is in a mixed situation user+collectible... the fluctuations you noticed are probably due to the fact that 58mm are the oldest ones... a bit more appealing for collectors, expecially when in VG conditions + hood + cap + box/papers... all value adders for collection-wise, and at the same time less easy to be found with an "old" item which maybe has passed on 2 or 3 owners...

Btw, the Noctilux f1,2, a "Pure collectible", stays well beyond the f1 as asked price (seems to me)

Edited October 9, 2017 by luigi bertolotti

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[wlaidlaw]

Also I think I am correct in saying that the 58mm Noctilux f1 has a "proper" lens hood and not the cheap, wobbly, plastic, built-in hood that the e60 version has. When I had an e60 version some years ago, being someone who originally was an engineer, this really offended my sense of what was decent engineering. The built-in lens hood on my 0.95 Noctilux is a far superior object and made of metal. 

 

Wilson