jaapv Posted August 26, 2017 Share #41 Posted August 26, 2017 Advertisement (gone after registration) They have, that is why we have to twiddle the yellow 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted August 26, 2017 Posted August 26, 2017 Hi jaapv, Take a look here Is this normal? (M10 all is yellow). I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Al_OOF Posted August 26, 2017 Share #42 Posted August 26, 2017 Of course, a RAW file can be manipulated and rendered better, though we should consider the so-called cross-colors so, if we put in place one then another could get worse but we should start from a zero point to evaluate a camera, ie RAW without manipulation. Otherwise why would you say in the reviews that the colors of the M10 are better than those of the 240 or the 9 ? I can also know how to fix an image but a camera can have a zero point, or starting point, better than another. I have probably been too categorical to advance a default hypothesis but it is a fact that in the same situation with artificial lights a camera interprets better than another. Then we can even fix everything but this is an "after". 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted August 26, 2017 Share #43 Posted August 26, 2017 If we REALLY want to fix colours, we have to get into LAB. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
microview Posted August 26, 2017 Share #44 Posted August 26, 2017 I understand Peter, the big surprise for me was that not Leica Q, Nikon D750 in the lightroom with their color profiles do not behave like M10. Yellow does not appear.... My first test pic with the Q in hallway lit with 'long life' type bulbs. Lots of yellow here (and cobwebs). Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/276145-is-this-normal-m10-all-is-yellow/?do=findComment&comment=3345748'>More sharing options...
JPP1 Posted August 26, 2017 Share #45 Posted August 26, 2017 @OP: Use Adobe profile and set yellow saturation to something around -25 in the TSL pane when importing RAW files. And just forget about it. Of course, there is a need to adjust the WB in some situations but it will be a better starting point. That's my experience. Others may disagree but, yes, as you do, I find there is a problem with yellow tints rendering. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted August 26, 2017 Share #46 Posted August 26, 2017 Not a WB problem IMHO. There is no yellow cast when converting the OP's DNG file with Apple Preview, RawTherapee (pic) or Silkypix. Just a faulty LR profile i suspect but i may be wrong. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/276145-is-this-normal-m10-all-is-yellow/?do=findComment&comment=3345814'>More sharing options...
mdemeyer Posted August 27, 2017 Share #47 Posted August 27, 2017 Advertisement (gone after registration) I was using the same starting point as JPP1 (Adobe Standard with -25 Saturation) for a while and then switched to the one described in post 18 of the thread on Oversaturated M10 Colors in Lightroom with default profiles. Have found that to be a generally excellent starting point. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bozu_shutterbugger Posted August 27, 2017 Share #48 Posted August 27, 2017 Ok, thank you for your help, i never had a weird colours in this room with my Q..... while I am no expert. Q is a very different camera. It seems to me it could be something silly that you are doing. How about you reset everything to default update the firm ware. Update photoshop.. Question does t show yellow in camera LCD? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
win-win Posted August 27, 2017 Author Share #49 Posted August 27, 2017 I was using the same starting point as JPP1 (Adobe Standard with -25 Saturation) for a while and then switched to the one described in post 18 of the thread on Oversaturated M10 Colors in Lightroom with default profiles. Have found that to be a generally excellent starting point. Thanks. This was helpful. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
win-win Posted August 27, 2017 Author Share #50 Posted August 27, 2017 Question does t show yellow in camera LCD? Yes, sure. Also OOC Jpegs are yellow,- this is strange. If somebody would like to use JPG.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
win-win Posted August 27, 2017 Author Share #51 Posted August 27, 2017 Just a faulty LR profile i suspect but i may be wrong. As I could understand this is not lightroom profile, this is Leica profile inside DNG file, when we are using Leica M10 profile in lightroom it means just to read color profile from DNG, thats why OOC JPGs from camera also look yellow. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted August 27, 2017 Share #52 Posted August 27, 2017 No, it is not really a problem with a profile; it is a problem that the AWB cannot match a specific difficult lighting situation, like LED or Fluorescent. It is a common problem on many cameras nowadays. In this case, I also suspect that a difference in (near) IR sensitivity of the sensor to for instance the Q plays a role. However, the solution is simple (assuming the M10 uses the same WB menu as the M240): Take a white balance card (like is included on your ColorcheckerPassport) or a piece of white paper, or even a grey card -although I find white to work better-, hold it in the spot where you wish the WB to be correct and set the WB to "grey card". The yellow will be gone. Some reading on the subject http://www.overgaard.dk/WhiteBal_greycard_manual_white_balance.html Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted August 27, 2017 Share #53 Posted August 27, 2017 Not a WB problem IMHO. There is no yellow cast when converting the OP's DNG file with Apple Preview, RawTherapee (pic) or Silkypix. Just a faulty LR profile i suspect but i may be wrong. L1000066_rt_web.jpg Those programs, I suspect, will use an image average to set WB, which, BTW, is a problem when an image is supposed to have a colour bias, but is handy in a case like this, and do not use the "as shot" WB. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted August 27, 2017 Share #54 Posted August 27, 2017 Of course, a RAW file can be manipulated and rendered better, though we should consider the so-called cross-colors so, if we put in place one then another could get worse but we should start from a zero point to evaluate a camera, ie RAW without manipulation. Otherwise why would you say in the reviews that the colors of the M10 are better than those of the 240 or the 9 ? I can also know how to fix an image but a camera can have a zero point, or starting point, better than another. I have probably been too categorical to advance a default hypothesis but it is a fact that in the same situation with artificial lights a camera interprets better than another. Then we can even fix everything but this is an "after". Raw output from the camera is not "without manipulation"; there has been a whole processing pipeline in the camera to get the captured photons on the sensor into the "raw" output file that you read into your computer, including the creation of colour data. Raw (not RAW, BTW) is, in fact, a misnomer, it should be called something like "Maximum Data File". Not that that is ever going to happen I'm sure Leica could address this specific problem in firmware (i.e. the way the camera handles the raw file), but it cannot be easy, as it would affect the colour rendering of other lighting situations. Basically one cannot say that the colour of the M10 is better than that of any other camera, or the other way around. Basically, the reviewer is saying that the M10 colour output works better with his (mind you, not your!) colour workflow and postprocessing program's settings in his subjective perception, and that he has been unable or unwilling to adapt properly to the cameras he is comparing to. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al_OOF Posted August 27, 2017 Share #55 Posted August 27, 2017 I meant to say without human manipulation. The starting point that can be taken to compare for example the color rendition of two different cameras. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted August 27, 2017 Share #56 Posted August 27, 2017 Yes, but the starting point is set automatically by the profile used by your raw developer, not by the camera. A specific use of the Colourchecker Passport is to shoot a profiling image, when you are using different cameras in one shoot, on each camera to equalize the colour rendering in postprocessing. Actually that is why I advised to use the grey card setting in the white balance menu, to create a fairly neutral -albeit most likely slightly cool- starting point. It would be even better to make a camera profile for the specific light, but that is extra work. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
win-win Posted August 27, 2017 Author Share #57 Posted August 27, 2017 (edited) BTW this is how RPP is handle with this DNG, quick and simple. Most accurate as my eyes could see. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Edited August 27, 2017 by win-win 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/276145-is-this-normal-m10-all-is-yellow/?do=findComment&comment=3345941'>More sharing options...
Al_OOF Posted August 27, 2017 Share #58 Posted August 27, 2017 In any case color is a difficult matter to handle... 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted August 27, 2017 Share #59 Posted August 27, 2017 Esthetically probably the best result up to now Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted August 27, 2017 Share #60 Posted August 27, 2017 So no WB issue right? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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