wlaidlaw Posted August 20, 2017 Share #1 Posted August 20, 2017 Advertisement (gone after registration) I have a beautiful condition 135mm Tele-Elmar-M f4 lens. This was new/old stock, still sealed in its box, when I bought it about 10 years ago and is still like new. I would like to use the head on my Barnack/LTM cameras. Now I know the head unscrews on the T-E 135 and I have used it as a macro lens with a suitable adapter on a Novoflex bellows. Is there an LTM focusing mount I could use this head on? I was thinking of the back of the 11750 135/4 Elmar lens, the one that has a vulcanite sleeve on it. If that does fit, I might be able to find that mount on an Elmar 135/f4, which was going cheap because of damaged/fungus logged optics. I would then get a SHOOC 135mm VF, which for some odd reason seem to go for about one third of what one has to pay for a SGOOD 85mm one, especially a metric parallax correction one for my 85mm Summarex, which is graduated only in metres. Wilson Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted August 20, 2017 Posted August 20, 2017 Hi wlaidlaw, Take a look here LTM focusing mount for 135mm Tele-Elmar-M head. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
gyoung Posted August 20, 2017 Share #2 Posted August 20, 2017 Doesnt the tele elmar fit on the short focussing mount for Visoflex WITHOUT the spacer tube you need for the Elmar? Its got the threads and register of the 90mm Elmarit I think. So physically you could use a 90mm Elmarit 'back end' but I doubt the cams etc would do the job, inless modified. Gerry Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
UliWer Posted August 20, 2017 Share #3 Posted August 20, 2017 With a Novoflex-Adapter LEM/VIS II, which has a screw mount, you can use the 16464 (OTZFO) focussing mount and the 16472 (OTSRO) tube for the lens head of the Tele-Elmar. But you'll have no scale to control the focussing distance and the camera's distance meter won't be activated -so this is no practical solution. So you'll need a Visoflex II body with screw mount (OUCLO/16458) which is rather rare I presume. I don't know wether there are any combinations to use the lens head with an Viso I, which usually come with screw mount and is not difficult to find. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gyoung Posted August 20, 2017 Share #4 Posted August 20, 2017 I think Wilson's idea is to use it directly on the L39 cameras, with r/f coupling? Gerry 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
UliWer Posted August 20, 2017 Share #5 Posted August 20, 2017 Yes, though I think the focussing mounts of the 135mm Elmar or Hektor which come with screw mounts cannot be used - at least if you want to focus on infinity. The length of the mounts differ too much. The mounts of the earlier 135 mm lenses had a sticker or an engraving with the serial number of the lens head, for each mount had to be accustomed to the head - so it would be very surprising if a head of a Tele-Elmar would allow good focus on a different mount. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
UliWer Posted August 20, 2017 Share #6 Posted August 20, 2017 Searching in the German part of the forum I found out that the lens head of the Tele-Elmar was to be used without the extension tube 16472/OTSRO on the focussing mount 16464/OTZFO. The extension tube was only necessary for the Elmar or Hektor lens heads. This shows that the focussing mounts of the Tele-Elmar and its precedessors differ too much to use the lens head on another mount. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gyoung Posted August 20, 2017 Share #7 Posted August 20, 2017 Advertisement (gone after registration) Searching in the German part of the forum I found out that the lens head of the Tele-Elmar was to be used without the extension tube 16472/OTSRO on the focussing mount 16464/OTZFO. The extension tube was only necessary for the Elmar or Hektor lens heads. This shows that the focussing mounts of the Tele-Elmar and its precedessors differ too much to use the lens head on another mount. That pretty much what I said in my first post above. Gerry Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted August 20, 2017 Author Share #8 Posted August 20, 2017 I see that a seller I know in Sussex has a beautiful looking LTM Elmar at a reasonable price. However, even at that reasonable price, I am far from sure I would use a 135 on my Barnack's enough to warrant it. I have a splendid Summarex 85mm/f1.5 which might in reality be long enough, although having been using it on my M7 this week, it is a lot easier to use on an M than an LTM. I do have a 135mm Sonnar f4 for my Contax IIa. How often have I used it? Never, I am ashamed to admit Wilson Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gyoung Posted August 20, 2017 Share #9 Posted August 20, 2017 Its the Elmarit 90 in LTM you would need, not so easy to find and not cheap. Plus the cost of mods. The 135 Elmar I have is good, cheap and looks the part on a Barnack! Gerry 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Geschlecht Posted August 21, 2017 Share #10 Posted August 21, 2017 (edited) Hello Wilson, Given what is written above: There are 2 separate issues here. Usability of the rangefinder cammed focusing mount of a focal length that is NOT 135mm for the lens head of a 135mm, F4 Tele-Elmar for rangefinder focusing on a screw mount camera: The movement of the roller in the camera body as opposed to the amount of lens extension is different at each different focal length. If you had a screen to look at: Visoflex II, Visoflex 020 or Leicaflex SL2, then it wouldn't matter. But since focusing is by rangefinder: The extension provided would be that extension required for the original focal length of the original lens head. It would not extend the lens correctly because the roller in the camera body position would not be correlated correctly with the actual amount of lens extension taking place. Example:For a 90mm lens to focus from Infinity to 1 meter requires about 10mm of lens extension. For a 135mm lens to focus from Infinity to 1.5 meters requires about 15mm of lens extension. The shorter lens requires LESS lens extension to focus CLOSER. Second complexity: IF you were to use a screw mount focusing mount for a 135mm F4 Elmar or for a later production 135mm F4.5 Hektor: The barrel extension as to roller position in the camera movement would be correct but the focusing mounts of the 2 screw mount lenses is APPROXIMATELY 30mm longer than the focusing mount of the 135mm, F4 Tele-Elmar. This means you would have to find someone to cut APPROXIMATELY 30mm from somewhere between the optical side of the focusing mount of 1 of the longer lenses & their screw mounts. Keeping in mind that you would also have to leave room for the adapter to convert the 42 X 0.75 thread in the mount of the 2 longer lenses to the 39 X 1 thread of the shorter lens head. Or perhaps that same person can change the bayonet mount of your 135mm, F4 Tele-Elmar into a screw mount. Unless you can convince someone who already has a screw mount 35mm, F1.4 Summilux & a screwmount 50mm, F1.2 Noctilux to give up 1 of their screwmount 135mm, F4 Tele-Elmars. Best Regards, Michael Edited August 21, 2017 by Michael Geschlecht Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted August 21, 2017 Author Share #11 Posted August 21, 2017 (edited) Michael, I have basically given the idea up as a non-starter. I had hoped originally, that the focusing tubes for the f4 135 Elmar head might be identical, other than a screw mount instead of a bayonet, to the focusing tube for the Tele-Elmar head and only the optical cell of the removable head had been updated from one lens to another. However from what I hear that is not the case. Interestingly when I was researching this, I found an error in Paul van Hasebroeck's large book on Leica equipment. He states that the head of the f4 135 Tele-Elmar is, unlike its predecessor, the 135/4 Elmar, not removable from the focusing mount. Well mine certainly is, as I have used the head on my Novoflex bellows. Wilson Edited August 21, 2017 by wlaidlaw Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Geschlecht Posted August 21, 2017 Share #12 Posted August 21, 2017 Hello Wilson, There are 3 different versions of the 135mm, F4 Tele-Elmar. Theoretically ALL of them having the same optical unit. The first is: A removable lens head with Scalloped & Knurled focusing collar. E39 filter thread The second: Which also has a removable lens head, has a Knurled (Only) focusing collar. NO scallops. E39 filter thread. The third: Does NOT have a removable lens head. E46 filter thread. Best Regards, Michael Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted August 21, 2017 Author Share #13 Posted August 21, 2017 Michael, Mine is a Version 2 and from the serial number, dates from 1990. Whereas I have seen a Version 1, I have never seen a Version 3, which must look a bit like an APO Telyt 135. Wilson Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Geschlecht Posted August 21, 2017 Share #14 Posted August 21, 2017 (edited) Hello Wilson, If you go to the top of this page & click the Leica "wiki". And then go to the M lenses. Then to the middle section of the 3 sections. And then go to the bottom. To the 135mm, F4 Tele-Elmar. You will see the 3 Versions lined up left to right. Version 1 then Version 2 then Version 3. Best Regards, Michael Edited August 21, 2017 by Michael Geschlecht 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted August 23, 2017 Share #15 Posted August 23, 2017 Michael, I have basically given the idea up as a non-starter.... Wilson I agree... RF focusing is impossible with standard accessories and Visoflex for a 135... hum... The Elmar 135 "non tele" is the right way for Barnacks... and the mixed silver+vulcanite finishing is fine coupling with the body. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Geschlecht Posted August 23, 2017 Share #16 Posted August 23, 2017 (edited) Hello Wilson, Keep in mind that the 135mm, F4 Elmar is a good lens by today's standards & with its longer focusing travel will be easier to focus, especially with a Barnack. It also has a 1/4 & 3/8 tripod mount. It is lighter than its younger brother. It is also around 30mm longer. E39 filters. A42 lens shades (ie: 12575 & 13352). Best Regards, Michael Edited August 23, 2017 by Michael Geschlecht 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
spydrxx Posted August 23, 2017 Share #17 Posted August 23, 2017 Several years ago I bought a V3 thinking it had a removable head to use on my Visoflex & bellows, sorely disappointed, and it very quickly found a new owner. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 23, 2017 Share #18 Posted August 23, 2017 ... @Wilson, a few years ago I think I have seen in an auction a Tele-Elmar 4.0-135mm with ltm screw mount, either a prototype or a modification. But I can not remember whether an exact focus was promised. On the Tele-Elmar 4.0-135mm, the tube has the same lens number as the lens head. They are coordinated with one another and can not be exchanged with others without a special fine re-adjustment. On a Visoflex things are different, as the focus is set via the screen or electronically. If you really think of more than 90mm for a ltm-Barnack, perhaps look for a Nikkor-PC 2.5-105mm ltm. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Geschlecht Posted August 23, 2017 Share #19 Posted August 23, 2017 (edited) Hello Everybody, Many Leitz/Leica lenses that are user separable into a focusing mount & a lens head: Have the serial number of the lens either: Engraved or written inside the focusing mount. Or have a separate label which is affixed inside the focusing mount. Best Regards, Michael Edited August 23, 2017 by Michael Geschlecht Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted August 23, 2017 Share #20 Posted August 23, 2017 (edited) For the record, my Hektor f/4.5 135mm M mount has no such engraving. The lens element is removable. Edited August 23, 2017 by pico Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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