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SL 90-280mm/R 280mm f/4 APO; images permitted


tritentrue

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Although this forum contains many posts of views about the SL 90-280mm and its R cousin, I have not found posts by anyone who owns both or has at least some hands-on experience with both lenses using the SL, T, or TL2.

 

I own the older lens and use it frequently on both the SL and T with extremely satisfying results.  My experience with the 90-280mm is limited to in-store test shots with the SL and T, no field experience whatsoever. But even in that limiting circumstance, my appetite for more was whetted by the spectacular results I saw as well as by images shared by others.  Unfortunately there appears to be no rental option for that lens in the area in which I live.

 

Does anyone here have firsthand experience comparing the two lenses on current Leica bodies? I'm particularly interested in hearing how the 90-280mm performs on the TL2's 24mp sensor, and how effective autofocus is in achieving critical accuracy.

 

At various times over the past several years I have succumbed to the lure of autofocus for nature photography and each time have gone back to focusing manually.  What I've read about the 90-280mm leads me to believe that it might be lens to bring me into the 21st century. However, I am not willing to part company with my 280mm f/4 until or unless there's some evidence, anecdotal or otherwise, that makes me believe the newer lens is a better option.

 

Opinions thereupon will be much appreciated.

 

 

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Depends entirely on what you are going to use it for ...... if it's wildlife then Doug Herr's opinion would be the one you want. 

 

Optically, only the 280/4 R appears to be better. I have the 280/2.8 R and the results are not as good at 2.8, but come close at f4 upwards but still slightly less contrasty out of camera. 

 

I have used the 90-280 SL for birds etc and AF is very quick and accurate....... but you are limited to 280, whereas with manual R lenses you can use the 1.4x and 2x extenders which is a great advantage. 

 

On the forum I think only Ikarusjohn has used the 90-280 with the TL2 (some have had problems getting it to work). There is no reason to expect the performance on the TL2 sensor to be other than excellent as Leica has designed in compatibility.

 

I suppose the 280/4 plus apo converters AND the 90-280 SL would give you the best of both worlds and cover 90-800mm at a quality that would be hard to beat. 

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I have not used the TL2 but I suspect this camera's higher pixel density will be well utilized by either the 280/4 APO or the 90-280 APO.

 

In my limited use of the 90-280 (about a month) I was very impressed with the optics: very sharp, negligible flare, unobtrusive bokeh.  At 280mm I felt it was very comparable to the 280/4 APO.  Either lens easily out-resolves a 24MP full-frame sensor, as evidenced by the moire and aliasing in fine feather detail.

 

I found I was not a big fan of the optical stabilization.  It's very effective but the firmware has only two settings: Off and On.  I'd prefer an option to limit the OS to small, high-frequency vibrations so I could move the camera to follow an animal's movements without viewfinder lag.  While making this example photo

 

bthare07.jpg

 

the AF system could not automatically keep its focus point on the hare's eye as the animal bent down to feed, turned to face one of its compatriots, or slowly hopped to a new feeding area.  We're not talking about a Peregrine Falcon in full stoop or a bounding gazelle, just slow meandering.  Keeping the AF point on the eye meant using the joystick.  Each time the hare moved a little the AF point would be off the eyes so I had to either move the AF point & refocus or re-frame.

 

Re-framing was a frustrating process because the OS system interpreted the camera movement as 'unintended wobble' (Leica's verbiage more or less) and the image would lag, eventually catching up with my intended framing.  Meanwhile the AF point is off the eye and for all practical purposes I was unable to make any photos for a few seconds as the OS stabilized and I was then able to move the AF point back to the eye.  By this time the hare would move again, it may have only been a centimeter or two, and I'd have to re-frame again.

Manual focus and no OS worked better for me, leaving the advantages as:

 

90-280 APO: variable focal length

280/4 APO: can use APO extenders

 

I'll leave it to the reader to decide which advantages are more important.

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Many thanks for the detailed response.  The comments on resolution and fine feather detail are particularly helpful.

 

From the SL to the 20mp m43 sensor of the E-M1 Mark II and many in between, I've yet to see a camera that strains the resolution limits of the 280mm APO.  I'd hate to sacrifice that just to gain autofocus and zoom versatility.

 

Image stabilization is of little use for what I do, as movements of some of my subject matter necessitate a fast shutter speed.  In fact, I've found a few manufacturers' implementation thereof to be a hindrance to achieving critically accurate focus.

 

The APO extenders have made me reluctant to switch until recently, as I believe a 420mm effective focal length (as with the TL2) would be sufficient for what I now do most of the time, depending on the critter.  For skittish ones such as a Channel-Billed Cuckoo, 800mm+ is not enough. For the most confiding sunbirds, the bare 280mm can be overkill.

 

Your most telling comment as it relates to my own experience is that manual focus worked better for you with the 90-280mm.  If I were to modernize only to find that autofocus is of no use, I'd regret my choice.

 

Again, thank you for the extremely helpful food for thought.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Autofocus is good.

But it is far from perfect.

It brings convenience and speed when the conditions are right but it also brings along anguish & frustration when changes and complications overcome its limitations.

 

I would surely welcome it but embrace it with the right expectations. It makes me a much more satisfied user.

 

Above said applies to all brands/model AF camera performance.

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I own both:

1. APO-Vario-Elmarit-SL 1:2.8-4/90-280 and

2. The APO- Telyt-R 1:4/280

I have compared both at diaphragm 8 on a tripod.

Enlosed are the results at full frame and cropped.

You will see hardly a difference.

I.e. the big advantage of the Vario is the autofocus, the Apo Telyt is not so easy to focus especially at moving objects.

However you can use the Apo-extenders 1.4 and 2.0

 

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Here the cropped file

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Here with Apo Telyt

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and the cropped file of Apo Telyt

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  • 3 years later...

I am resurrecting this thread, as I have an interest in the same question. I was wondering if anyone had thoughts on the newer SL2 and higher resolution bodies. I have a project coming up where I need to document some of the glaciers near me, and I need some extra reach. I am trying to decide between the cheaper 280/4 with the TC's or the modern lens with sealing, a zoom range and AF (but at double or more the price and not as much potential reach)...at least with the MTF, the 280/4 seems to be the sharper lens at 280mm, though I recognize it is solely in the edges. For me, however, that is important, as I tend to photograph distance high frequency detail like mountains and snowy/rocky landscapes. Obviously for most wildlife photos the field will be largely out of focus, so it is not quite as critical.

Additionally, the photos Peter posted were helpful, but aren't they identical? In A B comparison of the crops, they did not change at all...in the uncropped file, they do change a bit in tone, so I suspect that the cropped version was duplicated. I would love to see the proper crop if it is still around, but I understand it has been a few years!

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I never used 280mm apo telyt but very happy with 90-280mm for landscape work.

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On 8/19/2017 at 7:38 PM, thighslapper said:

Depends entirely on what you are going to use it for ...... if it's wildlife then Doug Herr's opinion would be the one you want. 

 

Optically, only the 280/4 R appears to be better. I have the 280/2.8 R and the results are not as good at 2.8, but come close at f4 upwards but still slightly less contrasty out of camera. 

 

I have used the 90-280 SL for birds etc and AF is very quick and accurate....... but you are limited to 280, whereas with manual R lenses you can use the 1.4x and 2x extenders which is a great advantage. 

 

On the forum I think only Ikarusjohn has used the 90-280 with the TL2 (some have had problems getting it to work). There is no reason to expect the performance on the TL2 sensor to be other than excellent as Leica has designed in compatibility.

 

I suppose the 280/4 plus apo converters AND the 90-280 SL would give you the best of both worlds and cover 90-800mm at a quality that would be hard to beat. 

Selecting the APSC mode on the SL2 extends the 90-280mm to 420mm without reducing any f stop with 20MPx still available with autofocus. Try shooting BIF with a manual focus lens, I would only say ‘challenging’.

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Stuart R's objective is glaciers.  Even if they recede the motion issues are not the same as BIF.  But the Weston family doctrine might apply -- there are no pictures to be found if you have to go more than a few 100 meters from the car.  So ease of use and intended field of view are factors.  I have the R 280/4 and extenders.  I used them on my Olympus E-M1 (a 2X crop) a few years ago to shoot a red moon a few hours before dawn.  Focusing was horribly difficult at those low light levels, but I got a few nice exposures. A current project involves seeing how things are being built atop a new building which is half a kilometer from the closest point that gives a decent view.  Since the area of interest is in a narrow strip limited in height, a two shot panorama, taken hand-held on the SL2 with the 90-280 at 200 or with an R APO 180/2.8 has given me what I needed so far.  If I wanted to focus down on some details (like agencal's lovely third shot just above) I would try the 280 on a tripod with an extender.

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Here is an image of Deer using an SL (601) with L Vario Elmarit 90-280.  I'll post two made with R Apo Telyt F4 280 ROM, and R Apo Telyt F4 280 ROM +2X ROM converter (using leica R-L adapter in a separate post

 

These are jpegs reduced to 1200px wide in LR from the original DNG files with no processing.

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...and here is an image taken on the same day with the R Apo Telyt F4 280 ROM +2X ROM converter (using leica R-L adapter) 

(Having to send the third separately because sized too large!!!

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...and a couple taken with the  R Apo Telyt F4 280 ROM only,

 

The lens was supported on a monopod.  Focusing - AFs single point on the 90-280,  manual on the apo telyt 280. With the 2X extender 1 mm of movement on the focusing barrel is enough to soften the image!!!!

 

Graeme

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  • jaapv changed the title to SL 90-280mm/R 280mm f/4 APO; images permitted

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