What's your post software process ?

[JohnBrawley]

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Hi.

 

I've just bought into the Leica S.  I got an insanely good deal on a new Leica S 100 year two lens kit so I leapt in (the 006) and I'm already shopping a 120 Macro as the next lens.

 

I've been shooting M8 and M-E for many years and I've come to really love C1 with those cameras.  They are always so much more beautiful than what I can do in LR.

 

But I'm finding very mixed results from the couple of shoot's i've done so far using the C1 rendering of images from the S.  The images are often too dark and I haven't been able to extract great results.  I do know it's not as officially supported, but is there anyway to improve the success rate ? 

 

I've had a quick look at Lightroom, and in many ways it's better off the bat, but it also seems to really struggle in certain situations as well.  C1 seems to noisier and a bit more random in the way it deals with red in skin tones (like on ruddier skin)

 

I've even looked at Phocus and Iridient.  I really like the Iridient rendering a lot, but it's very limited with it's local controls / adjustments.

 

Are there any othe roptions I should look at ?  Any other recipes to get better results ?  I do wish C1 just worked as well as it does with the M shots.

 

JB

[Jeff S]

Any of the popular softwares can work fine...the key is to pick one with an interface you can use and stick with it until you can achieve desired results. It was no different in the darkroom. The most important part is to have a good eye and good judgment to know when, where and to what degree to apply the tools at hand. The tools themselves should become second nature.

 

Introducing a new camera, however, takes time and patience, especially when integrating into an established print workflow. The PP software is but one part of many other variables from capture to display.... including profiles for camera, screen, paper and printer.

 

I use LR for my M files (with hardly any assistance anymore from PS), with Imageprint in lieu of the Epson driver. This served me well when I tested the 006 last year. But other tools could have done the job.

 

Jeff

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[John McMaster]

C1 does not natively support any medium format sensor other than PhaseOne, as you have found. I have been happy with LR but I rarely take portraits....

 

john

[Jon Warwick]

I thought Leica S isn't supported by C1, no?

 

Edit: noted above already!

Edited August 16, 2017 by Jon Warwick

[atanabe]

John,

I have used Adobe LR since getting my S2 in 2010 and I have developed a workflow for import and post processing that fits my needs.  With all of my cameras, I build a basic profile using the Passport Color Checker.  This is a starting point for all of my profiles that I create in addition to the neutral profile.  I prefer the look of Kodachrome, higher contrast saturated colors, so I created a profile for that and it is stored in User Presets.  When I import my files, i choose from the User Preset that I want to do my initial process.  With the S2 I have individual profiles for each ISO and lighting situation.  This can also be used to custom profile a specific shoot, by importing a representative image, tweaking the image to your liking and saving it as a User Preset then import the rest of the shoot with that profile.  This can save a lot of time over processing each and every image after import.  

 

I used to use C1 but when they did not support the S2, I had to look elsewhere and settled with LR out of default.  It may not be the best of the best of the best but it does do the functions that I ask it to and I get great results.  I could and have tried using the best of breed for each camera that I have but found it too confusing and a library headache.  

[JohnBrawley]

Any of the popular softwares can work fine...the key is to pick one with an interface you can use and stick with it until you can achieve desired results. 

 

Hi Jeff.

 

It's just that I know and can see differences, especially in the debayer algorithm used.  I've always found C1 to be better in this regard with the Leica M, and I was assuming seeing as they're both the same CCD sensor family it would be similar.

 

C1 does not natively support any medium format sensor other than PhaseOne, as you have found. I have been happy with LR but I rarely take portraits....

 

john

 

Well yes that's what they say.  I can tell you that C1 opens the DNG files, but it doesn't recognise them as Leica S files (though it does have other meta-data like shutter and aperture). I recently demo'd an X1D and C1 didn't open it's RAW files at all.  Perhaps because the Leica files are DNG ?

 

 

 

 

I used to use C1 but when they did not support the S2, I had to look elsewhere and settled with LR out of default.  It may not be the best of the best of the best but it does do the functions that I ask it to and I get great results.  I could and have tried using the best of breed for each camera that I have but found it too confusing and a library headache.  

 

 

I really prefer C1 because all the tools are built in.  The way you can fine tune colour is great and the way the local adjustments work is much better.  Each local adjustment has a full range of editing. For example, I'm included three images below.

 

Now, they are my very first shoot with the camera.  Focus is a bit forward and they are stolen shots because I was doing lighting tests with another camera.

 

However, what I've done is done a straight export from C1 and LR as JPEG.  Then I've done a graded version in both and then finally in C1 i've done the local adjustments.  I've also included the original DNGs so you can compare.

 

In Image 3 for example, it's a bit under exposed.  I found C1 really struggled and gave me a noise image and some odd things were happening to her neck.  AND the rendered JPEG looks NOTHING like the image in C1. I included a screen shot of the graded image with local adjustments open alongside the C1 image and they're very different.

 

I set the WB in C1 to 3200 manually and that seemed to look good.  However in LR, I needed them to be much cooler, around 2300K to make it match.

 

As I mentioned these are lighting tests for another camera and I had designed the lighting around a 3200K white point measured using a Colour Temperature meter 

 

On image 1 and 2, the "C1 Graded" image has a local adjustment only on her face to swing some of the magenta ruddiness of her skin.  You see it in the "no local" version and I also left her neck alone so you can see the difference.

 

It's really easy to see in the google web viewer on image 1 the difference between the local and non local C1 version. Look at her nose and cheek on the key side of her face.

 

Also note, image 1 was one of the first I shot and the WB was set to Daylight.

 

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B27C6GWL9XakZUtScHdud3lCVUk?usp=sharing

 

To me the LR version I had to go much cooler and there was no colour control to locally dial out the red blotchiness of her face.  I guess I could go into PS, but that's a whole other app and I'm keen to stay in the one place.

 

Anyhow, love to hear your thoughts.

JB

Edited August 17, 2017 by JohnBrawley

[Jeff S]

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You clearly don't know how to use LR local controls, including color, tint, temp, saturation and more. This is one of the huge benefits of later LR versions.

 

I suggest you get some good reference books or check out videos from Julieanne Kost or Lynda.com, etc.

 

Here's a video excerpt using the clarity control, but could easily apply to color controls.

 

https://www.google.com/search?q=adjusting+face+color+in+lightrrom&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-us&client=safari#kpvalbx=1&scso=uid_WZUPWAAEQfQKJtJBOAUauQ_1:167

 

There are various other LR tools as well, both global and local. Of course it helps to begin with a proper camera profile and/or presets that correct red tones and other color preferences.

 

I use LR equally successfully with both my M8.2 (CCD) and M10 (CMOS), with hardly ever a need for PS these days. It's more about the user than the sensor. I suspect that you're not taking advantage of many other LR capabilities.

 

Jeff

Edited August 17, 2017 by Jeff S

[Photon42]

Welcome to the S. I got my for my new S2 last week of July. Still trying ... I am using Lightroom since a very long time. If you know how to operate it, I cannot be beat in efficiency of post processing. I do not comment on the quality of the raw conversion against other products. I only use the Adobe profile, but that is because of my lack of in-depth understanding of the whole matter, probably.

[JohnBrawley]

You clearly don't know how to use LR local controls, including color, tint, temp, saturation and more. This is one of the huge benefits of later LR versions.

 

Here's a video excerpt using the clarity control, but could easily apply to color controls.

 

 

Hi Jeff.

 

I have the current version of LR. I'm very familiar with the technique you've linked to and use it in my LR practice.  My issue is with the level of colour control available within a brush adjustment.

 

If I want to swing a hue within a brushed local adjustment, I only have the basic WB and tint (magenta or green) controls.  (and yes clarity).  

https://www.flickr.com/gp/johnbrawley/27Mv44

 

Perhaps I'm missing something but in C1, you have much finer hue control and the ability to be a lot more selective WITHIN that local control about which hue and where you can move it. I can also do curve adjustments within each layer / local adjustment.  I can even use the HDR / Recovery tools very selectively.  

 

LR local adjustments don't have the full range of controls you have available when working outside of a local / brush adjustment. C1 Also has other tools like the "skin tone" picker than I'm using here to grab and adjust very fine skin tone hues.  I just haven't seen that degree of fine and precise control in LR.

 

https://www.flickr.com/gp/johnbrawley/b53P3p 

 

Yes you do have a curve editor in LR, but I've found that to be quite clumsy compared to the wheels in C1 AND more importantly, I haven't found how you can apply curve editor controls within a local adjustment.

 

In PS ? Sure.  Again, happy to be shown otherwise, but as far as I understand your linked video DOES NOT apply to the colour controls beyond a WB slider, tint adjustment and overall saturation.

 

JB

Edited August 17, 2017 by JohnBrawley

[djmay]

NIK might give you more control, however, it is an unsupported product. I tried it and liked the underlying technology, however, it made the workflow more complex. The gain in control was not worth the additional effort to me.

Jesse

[JohnBrawley]

NIK might give you more control, however, it is an unsupported product. I tried it and liked the underlying technology, however, it made the workflow more complex. The gain in control was not worth the additional effort to me.

Jesse

Hi Jesse,

 

I'm not familiar with NIK, is that a different post production app ?

 

JB

[djmay]

Hi Jesse,

 

I'm not familiar with NIK, is that a different post production app ?

 

JB

Nik Collection https://www.google.com/nikcollection/ is owned by Google. It is free and unsupported. It can be used standalone or as a plug-in to Lightroom.

 

Jesse

[JohnBrawley]

Nik Collection https://www.google.com/nikcollection/ is owned by Google. It is free and unsupported. It can be used standalone or as a plug-in to Lightroom.

 

Jesse

 

Thanks Jesse, I'll take a look, though clearly it's a short term solution if it's not supported ?

 

JB

[stephan_w]

I use LR with great satisfaction for the S

 

PS: Get the 180 instead of the 120, unless you really need macro

[JohnBrawley]

I use LR with great satisfaction for the S

 

PS: Get the 180 instead of the 120, unless you really need macro

 

Actually I'm leaning to the 100 over the 120 for portraiture.

 

I'll keep persevering with LR.  C1, while working is certainly behaving in a very in-consistent manner.

 

JB

[Jeff S]

Hi Jeff.

 

I have the current version of LR. I'm very familiar with the technique you've linked to and use it in my LR practice. My issue is with the level of colour control available within a brush adjustment.

 

If I want to swing a hue within a brushed local adjustment, I only have the basic WB and tint (magenta or green) controls. (and yes clarity).

https://www.flickr.com/gp/johnbrawley/27Mv44

 

Perhaps I'm missing something but in C1, you have much finer hue control and the ability to be a lot more selective WITHIN that local control about which hue and where you can move it. I can also do curve adjustments within each layer / local adjustment. I can even use the HDR / Recovery tools very selectively.

 

LR local adjustments don't have the full range of controls you have available when working outside of a local / brush adjustment. C1 Also has other tools like the "skin tone" picker than I'm using here to grab and adjust very fine skin tone hues. I just haven't seen that degree of fine and precise control in LR.

 

https://www.flickr.com/gp/johnbrawley/b53P3p

 

Yes you do have a curve editor in LR, but I've found that to be quite clumsy compared to the wheels in C1 AND more importantly, I haven't found how you can apply curve editor controls within a local adjustment.

 

In PS ? Sure. Again, happy to be shown otherwise, but as far as I understand your linked video DOES NOT apply to the colour controls beyond a WB slider, tint adjustment and overall saturation.

 

JB

http://blogs.adobe.com/jkost/2015/11/selecting-a-color-from-an-image-in-lightroom.html

 

And one can also use the Targeted Adjustment Tool in the HSL panel to isolate specific area hues, saturation and luminance, but depending on the image, other areas might be affected.

 

I find that if I expose properly to start, using appropriate profiles and presets, LR provides most everything else I need on the vast majority of pics.

 

Jeff

Edited August 17, 2017 by Jeff S