Early 50 Summicron lens, a Marketing invention?

[alan mcfall]

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The photo below shows a 50 summicron lens (on an early IIIf), on the cover of the Sept. 1 1953 Canadian catalog. The lens is clearly marked Summicron and the serial number is clearly No 795091, but is it really a summicron?  I appreciate that catalogs may have been in preparation some time before they were distributed.

 

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Leica lens tables, including Thiele, show that 792001 to 800000 are all Summitars.  And, it is fairly certain that the primary Summicron prototypes were the later Summitar Star lenses from 812242* to 812323*.  The first Summicron production lenses reportedly started at 920001.  I have recorded 62 Summicron lenses from the 920xxx and 921xxx batches, and have 5 of them.

Again, lens lists show the first summicrons at 920001 to 922100, but I have seen many lenses between 922100 and 923000, suggesting that this first production group was 3000 lenses and not 2100.

The new summicron is also shown in both the June  and Sept price lists for 1953, and the specific one shown is 922001. So, perhaps Leitz assigned all 3000 initially and production of 920xxx, 921xxx and 922xxx occurred in parallel.  It is common that lens serials and elapsed time are not in alignment.

 

So, is this Summicron lens 795091 for real, I think not. Notice that the front rim has no threads for a filter.  This was the normal for the Summitar and not the Summicron.  My guess is the catalog preparation staff did not have ready access to the new Summicron and took the liberty of using a Summitar and altering the name (1953 photoshop).  I have seen this happen a few other times.

Anyway, any other knowledge or speculation would be interesting.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Ko.Fe.]

Sounds like Canada to me.

Where I'm, here we still have one ex-Leica technician shop with his son running it now. I think this is what I have seen earlier in where this year. It was Cron Collapsible marked as Summitar. I used to have both and it was interesting to hold Summitar, but Cron sized. 

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[250swb]

Hmm, given 'Summicron' appears to have been written freehand I would assume it is a trick of the marketing department and not a missing link in Leica lens history.

[Pecole]

Very interesting indeed. In the course of collecting, no less than 49 Summicron 50 passed in my shelves, but the only "interesting" serial I had was nº 993930, a collapsible screw-mount variant. As for Summitars - I had a total 29 - the only Summitar* or Summicron prototype was serialled 812246.

Congratulations for your research, Alan.

[willeica]

I think that this is an 'artist's impression'. I have a number of IIIf manuals. A US manual for the IIIf Black Dial shows a photograph of the camera a Summitar with the SN 786346 on the cover. Another US manual for the IIIf Red Dial ( priced at 35c like the BD manual but stamped 'not for sale') also shows a photo of the camera with a Summitar with a lower SN 620047. I also have two versions of a European manual (from Germany but in English) for the If, IIf and IIf Red Dial. These largely show the camera with an Elmar. In one of these, however, a photo of the camera appears with a Summitar detached in a person's hand. The SN appears to start with 78. The second edition of the same manual shows the exact same photograph except that the lens is now marked Summicron. The SN does not appear to have changed. Clearly a 'touch up' artist was at work. This would seem to confirm that Leica was showing Summitars as Summicrons at or around the time that the Summicron was introduced.

 

William

Edited August 13, 2017 by willeica

[luigi bertolotti]

Nice find Alan ! Surely a marketing "fake" (based on a Summitar) , but a very intriguing one.. the hand written "Summicron" is really a fine job, with a decent (not perfect...  ) perspective of the letters. But, clearly, people who made the image didn't know yet that Summicrons would have the lens name written with orientation that is reversed in respect to the one of Summitars...

 

(even if, about orientation of front writing, Summarons 3,5 demonstrate that not always in Wetzlar they were so sure about how to manage it...  )

 

 

 

Edited August 13, 2017 by luigi bertolotti

[Michael Geschlecht]

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Hello Everybody,

 

Something similar.

 

There is a 1969 (Approximately) tall & narrow Leitz lens brochure with a bright chrome 50mm, F1.4 Summilux on the cover: Which has a photo of a Version I, 35mm, F2 Summicron w/o goggles (For M1, M2 & M4) in it & describes the lens as a 6 element lens. 

 

Best Regards,

 

Michael

Edited August 13, 2017 by Michael Geschlecht

[willeica]

Relying on manuals and brochures to determine SN ranges is probably not really possible. These will have been produced to promote and sell various models and accessories including lenses and will include pictures (photographs and drawings) that have been altered.  Another point occurs, however. The variety of brochures for the IIIf and, indeed, other models is something that will have to factored if Wilson's data base of Leica material gets off the ground. We have identified at least 4 different English language brochures for the IIIf RD here and I am sure that there are more. I have multiple different original manuals for a number of Leica models. I also have manuals and brochures in French and German as well as English. Any data base will have to identify which version is which. Something to consider when the data base is being set up.

 

William

[tobey bilek]

The key is the recessed filter threads unique to Summitar.

[willeica]

The key is the recessed filter threads unique to Summitar.

 

 These are obvious touch jobs done by 'Leica artists'. The lens is a Summitar with a Summitar SN marked as a Summicron. The two identical photos with the lens marked as a Summitar in one and as a Summicron in the other establish this beyond doubt. I can post the photos here if people are interested. 

 

William

[schattenundlicht]

Although the matter has been settled by William's comparison and contributions by others on this thread, and the matter obviously is due to artistic liberty/ preemptive marketing, maybe the Leitz artists were being confused by their engineering colleagues: I just stumbled upon this "Summicron prototype in Summitar guise" in Laney's collector's guide ;-)

 

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[wlaidlaw]

Would not all the Summitars by this time have the hex diaphragm, which is readily visible (see photo of mine). Also the positioning of the text on the front ring is wrong for a Summitar. I think it is more likely to be a prototype Summicron, maybe using some metal parts from the earlier Summitar. 

 

Wilson

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[wizard]

Interesting in that Alan above has posted that the Summitar * lenses end at SN 812323, whereas the post just above shows a Summitar * lens 812352, which seems to indicate that more Summitar * lenses were in fact produced.

 

Cheers,

 

Andy

[wlaidlaw]

Interesting in that Alan above has posted that the Summitar * lenses end at SN 812323, whereas the post just above shows a Summitar * lens 812352, which seems to indicate that more Summitar * lenses were in fact produced.

 

Cheers,

 

Andy

 

.....and mine at 980100!

 

Wilson

[willeica]

In my post of 13th August above I mentioned some distinctions and representation of lenses on various IIIf models on a number of manuals which I have in my collection. Below are the 4 manuals I mentioned. The top two were produced for the US market with the one in red being for the Black Dial model and the one in green being for the Red Dial Model. The bottom two manuals are for the Red Dial model and were produced in Germany and are in English.

 

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The really interesting bit is in the two apparently identical manuals at the bottom. The first one on the left shows this picture of a IIIf in a person's hand with a Summitar with an SN beginning with 78 followed by possibly a 3. Note the code 3374 on the picture.

 

 

The next photo is from the manual on the right. It is clearly the same photo (albeit a darker exposure) with the watch and finger position and even the manicuring of the finger nails being identical. To finally convince doubters, Leica has added the same picture code 3374, this time followed by a 'b'. The eagle eyed will spot that a self timer has been added by the touch up artist. The really interesting bit is the lens which has been re-named as a Summicron, but it still retains the same SN commencing with 78 followed by possibly a 3.

 

 

I suppose the lesson in all of this is not to trust old manuals in identifying serial number/type sequences.

 

Sorry for the delay in posting all of this, but I have been busy finishing an article about photography in World War One - see post in Barnack's Bar.

 

William

Edited August 18, 2017 by willeica

[wlaidlaw]

Also, if the Summitar/Summicron is in the locked out position with the focus tab in the infinity latch (as they should always be for mounting), then the text 180º away from the infinity latch should be Ernst Leitz not the lens name, so lots of artistic licence on these images. 

 

Wilson