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Weddings, Events, Live Music - M10, lenses and second body?


dancook

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Further to this, I'm thinking - if I sold the Q and the 50SL - get a 24-90 2.8-4 zoom and be on my way to buying a Leica-M prime and perhaps M10 - will need to work it so I have a backup though.

 

Depends on how you shoot. If it's purely as a *backup* (ie: you like shooting with a single camera but know thinks break) then you can pick almost any camera from the last 3-4 years and it'll be enough. Just work out your bare minimum. When I shot with the M9's I kept an EM-5, batteries, 12-35 2.8 and a 25mm (50 eq..) in the boot of the car because I knew I could do a whole wedding with that kit if I needed to.

 

If, on the other hand, you're a die hard two camera shooter then you'll need something that works with all your essential gear. I got my second SL mint and 10 weeks old for 60% of a new one and that's with a spare battery and M adaptor. A type 240 s a great M, as a second camera (a small step behind the SL sensor) that has astounding battery life for a little camera and are very reasonable in price as people dump them for the M10. The buffer is a bit smaller and it's 80% as responsive as the M10 (and SL) but it's fab in a two camera environment.

 

Also don't discount CV and Zeiss M lenses as a path to where you want to be. Most are excellent. Even if they're just a stepping stone to the Leica versions. That might allow you to get the M10 now, with a fast 50 ( and the Nokton 1.5 is a great lens) for several thousand less than the changeover you're currently contemplating.

 

Can I ask a question? You had the 50 'lux and moved to the SL version. How was shooting the M lens on the SL for you? Will you miss the AF or will you be going back "home"?

 

Gordon

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Can I ask a question? You had the 50 'lux and moved to the SL version. How was shooting the M lens on the SL for you? Will you miss the AF or will you be going back "home"?

 

Gordon

 

It was trickier getting critical focus as quickly as I can with AF, also I feel the SL quality was better. So I was pretty happy with 50SL from that point of view.

 

But I didn't give myself much chance to spend time with manual focus.

 

 

I was thinking i might need the SL with AF to fall back on, whilst I get to grips with manual focus - I know I would need to adapt, I suppose whilst i'm not committed to running a wedding business of my own, I could afford to experiment - but can't let the main photographer down.

 

I will get to try the m10 out at a wedding for a couple of hours on Saturday, courtesy of Tobers. 

 

Maybe I will do a bit of prefocussing and narrow the aperture to capture motion, like bride and bridesmaids walking down the aisle. 

 

 

I have an idea of how i will need to adapt, and hope it would slow me down - so I'm not just constantly shooting close up emotion shots with little context.

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Assume that you can get around £3500 for the SL body, £3500 for the 90-280 and £3000 for the 50. You might get £3000 for the Q. That gives you a budget of around £11-12K, £13K if you're lucky!.

If I were in your position I'd get a used Canon 5D3 (£1600) + 70-200 L f2.8 mk II IS (£1400): TOTAL £3K.  This will cover your bases for events and weddings when you need to have a stabilised long lens with all the benefits of reliable AF.  You then have £9-10K to play with.

I'd get a new M10 (£5800) + used 28 & 50.  If you can get a summicron 28 and summilux 50 you'll have a good core set.  You could add an older 21 pre-asph and a 75 summarit (great little lens!) later.  You may want to have a used M240 as a backup body if funds permit.

In my experience this would cover a VERY wide range of assignments.

Decisions, decisions....

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Assume that you can get around £3500 for the SL body, £3500 for the 90-280 and £3000 for the 50. You might get £3000 for the Q. That gives you a budget of around £11-12K, £13K if you're lucky!.

If I were in your position I'd get a used Canon 5D3 (£1600) + 70-200 L f2.8 mk II IS (£1400): TOTAL £3K.  This will cover your bases for events and weddings when you need to have a stabilised long lens with all the benefits of reliable AF.  You then have £9-10K to play with.

I'd get a new M10 (£5800) + used 28 & 50.  If you can get a summicron 28 and summilux 50 you'll have a good core set.  You could add an older 21 pre-asph and a 75 summarit (great little lens!) later.  You may want to have a used M240 as a backup body if funds permit.

In my experience this would cover a VERY wide range of assignments.

Decisions, decisions....

 

thanks, the Nikon D750 is always a safe bet for a cost effective "professional" DSLR - £1155, 70-200 is a little more, going by panamoz prices but it's

 

Canon £2959 vs Nikon £2771 

 

I'll keep a tally of options and give it all consideration. thanks

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I currently own Leica Q, Leica SL, 50SL and 90-280SL.

 

I'm considering if I sold them all what I could purchase along with an M10, and still cope with wedding, events and live music.

 

Its not the gear its the user and how they use it. I helped a friend shoot a wedding a week ago. I shot on dSLR and M RF. Both work well enough produced good images but both have strengths and weaknesses. But swapping gear to try a new system won't necessarily produce the results. Its about experience and familiarity too. If I asked myself whether I would shoot a wedding with just an M RF camera (with which I am very familiar) the honest answer would be no. I'd carry it along with a dSLR but the dSLR is simply more versatile. Yes, its possible to shoot a wedding with just M RF and produce very fine images but its not going to happen just by buying and owning the gear without experience and being fully familiar with it. If you have to ask the question you asked then I'd suggest that the answer is probably no.

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Its not the gear its the user and how they use it. I helped a friend shoot a wedding a week ago. I shot on dSLR and M RF. Both work well enough produced good images but both have strengths and weaknesses. But swapping gear to try a new system won't necessarily produce the results. Its about experience and familiarity too. If I asked myself whether I would shoot a wedding with just an M RF camera (with which I am very familiar) the honest answer would be no. I'd carry it along with a dSLR but the dSLR is simply more versatile. Yes, its possible to shoot a wedding with just M RF and produce very fine images but its not going to happen just by buying and owning the gear without experience and being fully familiar with it. If you have to ask the question you asked then I'd suggest that the answer is probably no.

 

thanks, I don't expect to become familiar with it overnight.

 

My question helps me weigh up the theory of it, so I can decide what path to take when choosing what gear to keep and what to sell.. 

 

I'm currently in the mind that I'd want keep an AF camera, but whether it's the SL, the Q or another camera - I'm still pondering.

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I'm currently in the mind that I'd want keep an AF camera, but whether it's the SL, the Q or another camera - I'm still pondering.

 

The only non-interchangable lens camera I own is a specialist one - an SWC/M. So to me its a no-brainer ;) .

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The only non-interchangable lens camera I own is a specialist one - an SWC/M. So to me its a no-brainer ;) .

 

Was just taking photos of our new puppy tonight, the Q was the best thing I have to do this :) got me thinking...

 

Q, M10 21+50+90, something long :D

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Was just taking photos of our new puppy tonight, the Q was the best thing I have to do this :) got me thinking...

 

Q, M10 21+50+90, something long :D

Hi "dancook"!

I suggest the other option that I may also follow:

- SL 601 and SL 16-35 (coming the year end),

- M10, M 50, M 75 and SL 90-280 (your available) or R Apo 180 f2.8 or R Apo 280 f4 (with R Apo Extender)!

Have a nice day!

Thanks!

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Ok I borrowed @tobers, thanks!, M10 for the ceremony of a wedding, for which I am 'second photographer'.

 

Tobers and I turned up early and he took me through the camera, and I had some practice with it, though it's not the first time I've used it either.

 

I used full manual, and I found myself taking a test shot or checking the EV when entering a new room, to speed up the process of getting the exposure I wanted - a lot of the test shots were taken whilst walking, looking into the rangefinder and balancing the arrows seemed like it was going to slow me down. 

 

The ceremony room was pretty dark, and I used ISO 1600, 1.4 and 1/60th shutter speed - for which I have regret. 1/60th is just too slow for close up laughing, as soon as heads move around it's blurred. So whilst I had to manual focus, I also challenged myself with a relatively slow shutter speed too.

 

Whilst the M10, by all accounts is a robust camera, when I don't own it - for all I care it's made of china. Lens changes took longer than they probably should, because of the sheer amount of care I took.

 

The ceremony wasn't particularly long, and it was decided for me to get some shots from the balcony above, it was a short elevator journey and a long walk around the top - I shot the bride walking down the aisle by the time I got down, they were exchanging rings. So i didn't get the time I wanted to shoot more thoughtfully composed shots, not to mention super creaky floorboards at the back...

 

The rendering of the camera/lenses are as lovely as I'd expect and hope, providing I get the shot in focus!

 

After the ceremony I switched back to my Leica Q and SL - and certainly had a new appreciation for the easy of which I could get in focus shots of moments as they occur. Though I'm not put off at all by the M10, focusing is something I'd need to practice. It's hard to give final thoughts, when it's still so mixed - and the puppy kept us awake all night, and I'm super tired right now..

 

Here's a large selection of photos from the M10, including technically flawed ones.

 

36536288415_b7287fdd80_b.jpgM10 Wedding by dancook1982, on Flickr

 

36490099756_92a82b7d12_b.jpgM10 Wedding by dancook1982, on Flickr

 

36536287945_0253a5aff2_b.jpgM10 Wedding by dancook1982, on Flickr

 

36536282645_213f2a7d63_b.jpgM10 Wedding by dancook1982, on Flickr

 

36490099286_99dd918da8_b.jpgM10 Wedding by dancook1982, on Flickr

 

36536287445_e0f416eeee_b.jpgM10 Wedding by dancook1982, on Flickr

 

36490098786_cb625173b6_b.jpgM10 Wedding by dancook1982, on Flickr

 

36490098336_ca57217538_b.jpgM10 Wedding by dancook1982, on Flickr

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I'd say you did very well there Dan, especially as you were using the M10 for the first time "in anger" and hitting shots with very wide apertures. The venue itself was a black hole light-wise so those turned out very nicely indeed too. And I did think the camera suited you :-)

 

On catching "moments", watching closely and antipation is the key as you undoubtably know. If you can set focus wait for it, it's much easier. If not, you're going to struggle to beat relatively instant autofocus in most situations.

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I suspect if you put autofocus effectiveness at the top of your requirements list, a pair of Sony A9s should probably be on your list. Quieter than DSLRs, smaller, lighter (than 1DX). If interest, engagement and enjoyment are high on your list, the M10 can't be beaten IMHO.

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I'd say you did very well there Dan, especially as you were using the M10 for the first time "in anger" and hitting shots with very wide apertures. The venue itself was a black hole light-wise so those turned out very nicely indeed too. And I did think the camera suited you :-)

 

On catching "moments", watching closely and antipation is the key as you undoubtably know. If you can set focus wait for it, it's much easier. If not, you're going to struggle to beat relatively instant autofocus in most situations.

 

Thanks Andy, I think I could get used to it :) and I would certainly like one - how I make the transition though is still something I'm working out.

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I would not like the so saturated colours and the (too) high contrasts. To me the photos are quite sharp indeed but somehow artificial.

 

Please do not take that as a statement against your abilities or skills. It is just my personal feeling when looking at your colour pics.

 

Last Friday night I had a similar decision to make: I had the order (Auftrag) to document an outdoor concert in the evening. The stage was rather dark with a few strong spotlights. And I decided to take the 5D with the 70-200 plus 50mm prime. Before my decision I thought of how I will move around there (I was allowed to go onto the stage too very near to the musicians): As usually I go to a position which is most often in front of some people, there I try to shoot a few shots and disappear quickly not to disturb people behind me too much. The same on the stage: Appear, shoot and disappear. It has to go fast.

 

My main settings were f/2.8 70-200mm (whole range of the zoom) 1/200 to 1/500s at ISO 800 to 3200 and a correction of -1¾ AV. Some shots I did with 50mm at 1.4 with the same correction and corresponding ISOs. Like that I had all faces perfectly well exposed without any blown highlights. The lens had image stabilisation and fast AF. The AF worked extremely well on the Canon and I was very fast in my work. The result is splendid: About 500 very crisp and sharp images. 

 

A few weeks ago at a similar event I was brave and I took the M10 with 50mm Lux and the 75mm Cron. I would not say that I struggled but I had many shots out of focus. Or else it took me too long to shoot and I did not feel well. I want really to appear in front and disappear quickly. People should not start to think what this guy is making there . . .

 

But I think that you did well after all. Congratulations. It will take me longer to do what you did. Next time I will try to take Canon AND the M10 . . .

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