scott kirkpatrick Posted September 24, 2017 Share #121 Posted September 24, 2017 Advertisement (gone after registration) You know, I hate to say it, but I have a Fuji X-T2, which is an APS-C mirrorless with a pretty good EVF and some excellent lenses, AF and all that. I wouldn't call it "happy-go-lucky," but it does its job pretty well. I think the TLs should concentrate on what they are good at. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted September 24, 2017 Posted September 24, 2017 Hi scott kirkpatrick, Take a look here Code Name "Clooney". I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
miro Posted September 24, 2017 Author Share #122 Posted September 24, 2017 The latest rumor is for a TL mount camera with EVF ; not necessarily a TL2 . It may be based on the Q . A QL . Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom0511 Posted September 24, 2017 Share #123 Posted September 24, 2017 (edited) I agree I'm not sure that I can agree with your last statement. Leica should simply have announced that there would be 2 options -- one without evf and one with. Why the secret? (Leica announces their roadmap for lenses to be released). This is still only a rumor, so we will see. (If a TL2 with evf comes along, I presume it will have an outstanding evf, and I'll commit to one and simply sell mine to someone who wants that "happy go lucky camera"!) I fully agree. I think it is cool if there would be 2 types of TL bodies, but it would help a lot if Leica would give a product forecast to their customers. They should know what is coming and make their choice. (By the way I also think other brands could give more longterm forcasts) Edited September 24, 2017 by tom0511 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LocalHero1953 Posted September 24, 2017 Share #124 Posted September 24, 2017 (edited) To be clear - I fully expect to be in a minority in preferring the TL2 to a TL with a built-in EVF. And, knowing human nature, I fully expect there to be an outbreak of grumbling if and when such a Clooney is announced. But would it be justified? Not IMO. Such a release was readily predictable. Edit. I'm not sure what the TL has to do with it - it was little more than a rebadged T. I guess most who bought it would have bought a T anyway. Edited September 24, 2017 by LocalHero1953 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
miro Posted September 24, 2017 Author Share #125 Posted September 24, 2017 Isn't the TL2 still in pre-order after the debacle of its initial release ? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ropo54 Posted September 24, 2017 Share #126 Posted September 24, 2017 Isn't the TL2 still in pre-order after the debacle of its initial release ? Yes, they are still scarce. To be clear - I fully expect to be in a minority in preferring the TL2 to a TL with a built-in EVF. And, knowing human nature, I fully expect there to be an outbreak of grumbling if and when such a Clooney is announced. But would it be justified? Not IMO. Such a release was readily predictable. Edit. I'm not sure what the TL has to do with it - it was little more than a rebadged T. I guess most who bought it would have bought a T anyway. What was readily predictable? Prior to its release no one knew whether the TL2 was to have a built in EVF. The TL2 is a definite upgrade over the TL, and I cannot imagine that the "Clooney" is going to be a TL with a built-in EVF; that makes no sense. T and TL sales were slow because of the camera's operation so to take a step back makes little sense. If I had to guess, I would still think the "Clooney" is not going to be a TL2 with EVF, but rather some newly designed camera with a superb EVF and a more traditional user interface along the lines of the SL or Q. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest VVJ Posted September 24, 2017 Share #127 Posted September 24, 2017 Advertisement (gone after registration) To be clear - I fully expect to be in a minority in preferring the TL2 to a TL with a built-in EVF. And, knowing human nature, I fully expect there to be an outbreak of grumbling if and when such a Clooney is announced. But would it be justified? Not IMO. Such a release was readily predictable. Predictable, not really to be very honest... In 2016 before the TL was released a lot of people were afraid that the T was a dead end. If you would have said then that the T would be followed by the TL only to be followed after only 8 months by the TL2 only to be followed shortly by a TL with an integrated view finder nobody would have believed you... It is easy to play to the oracle after the facts IMHO... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
miro Posted September 24, 2017 Author Share #128 Posted September 24, 2017 I recently rented a Q and found the EVF and LCD sub par for a $4200 camera . Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LocalHero1953 Posted September 24, 2017 Share #129 Posted September 24, 2017 Yes, they are still scarce. What was readily predictable? Prior to its release no one knew whether the TL2 was to have a built in EVF. The TL2 is a definite upgrade over the TL, and I cannot imagine that the "Clooney" is going to be a TL with a built-in EVF; that makes no sense. T and TL sales were slow because of the camera's operation so to take a step back makes little sense. If I had to guess, I would still think the "Clooney" is not going to be a TL2 with EVF, but rather some newly designed camera with a superb EVF and a more traditional user interface along the lines of the SL or Q. Well, after the TL2 was released, I certainly thought a future version might come out with a built-in EVF. I'm not sure I was the only one. Jono Slack had put one on his wish list. No, I wasn't expecting a 'TL' with an EVF, but guessing that a TL2 with an EVF might be on its way - and making my buying decision accordingly. Whether Clooney actually is that TL2 with an EVF or not, I have no idea. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LocalHero1953 Posted September 24, 2017 Share #130 Posted September 24, 2017 Predictable, not really to be very honest... In 2016 before the TL was released a lot of people were afraid that the T was a dead end. If you would have said then that the T would be followed by the TL only to be followed after only 8 months by the TL2 only to be followed shortly by a TL with an integrated view finder nobody would have believed you... It is easy to play to the oracle after the facts IMHO... I have no special claims to being an oracle. May I refer to this thread, started in March? The announcement of the TL2 with no EVF did not halt the speculation about a TL2 with EVF. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ropo54 Posted September 24, 2017 Share #131 Posted September 24, 2017 (edited) I recently rented a Q and found the EVF and LCD sub par for a $4200 camera . I am surprised by your opinion. I think both are excellent. (Certainly much better than the current EVF for the TL2 and M10). $4200 . . . that's just Leica. Edited September 24, 2017 by ropo54 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ropo54 Posted September 24, 2017 Share #132 Posted September 24, 2017 (edited) I have no special claims to being an oracle. May I refer to this thread, started in March? The announcement of the TL2 with no EVF did not halt the speculation about a TL2 with EVF. We shall all find out very soon! Edited September 24, 2017 by ropo54 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkCambridgeshire Posted September 24, 2017 Share #133 Posted September 24, 2017 I recently rented a Q and found the EVF and LCD sub par for a $4200 camera . Sub-par to which other mirrorless model ? Or compared to which other camera? dunk Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted September 24, 2017 Share #134 Posted September 24, 2017 (edited) I think you will be a well respected minority. Well, you can count me in as well. I liked the T, but the slowness killed it for me. With the TL2, having the option of no strap, no EVF and small lens makes the camera pocketable. As I also have the SL, I do not believe that Leica can make a TL2 version with a built in EVF (with GPS) as good as either the SL or the Visoflex 020 without making the camera significantly bigger - then the camera loses a considerable raison d'être for me. If it is to be larger, then it needs to be more like an M format, with L mount and built in EVF as good as the SL - in that case, it would also be good if it was full frame, but that might be asking too much ... Edit - an EVF version camera, in M format has been on the wishlist, and discussed here for many years. Now that Leica has a superb EVF in the SL, it would be logical for them to instal that into a smaller camera. Whether that would be a small SL or an EVF M is the debate. For myself, I'd rather see an M format, without the AF lenses; but I guess that can be achieved with an adapter, giving the best of both worlds. APS-C or full format? At this stage, Leica has its medium format S, full frame SL, M & Q, APS-C based TL2 and X cameras, and the Panasonic compacts. I'd say it's anyone's pick. I think Leica is committed to the L mount - perhaps another APS-C to drive purchases of the TL lenses? Edited September 24, 2017 by IkarusJohn Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ropo54 Posted September 24, 2017 Share #135 Posted September 24, 2017 (edited) APS-C or full format? At this stage, Leica has its medium format S, full frame SL, M & Q, APS-C based TL2 and X cameras, and the Panasonic compacts. I'd say it's anyone's pick. I think Leica is committed to the L mount - perhaps another APS-C to drive purchases of the TL lenses? Leica's X camera line has been discontinued, which suggests to me that the "Clooney" is to go in that direction. Just a guess. Edited September 24, 2017 by ropo54 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
miro Posted September 24, 2017 Author Share #136 Posted September 24, 2017 Sub-par to which other mirrorless model ? Or compared to which other camera? dunk Canon EOS M6 for one . I shot them side by side . Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mgrayson3 Posted September 24, 2017 Share #137 Posted September 24, 2017 If you find a better lens than the one on the Q on any similar camera, I'll be extraordinarily impressed. That 28/1.7 is a miracle! 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
miro Posted September 24, 2017 Author Share #138 Posted September 24, 2017 I agree about the Q's lens . But the EVF and LCD are sub par . Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest VVJ Posted September 24, 2017 Share #139 Posted September 24, 2017 I have no special claims to being an oracle. May I refer to this thread, started in March? The announcement of the TL2 with no EVF did not halt the speculation about a TL2 with EVF. Speculation does not make it a fact and predictable such that existing TL2 owners feeling disappointed by a subsequent TL with built in EVF have only themselves to blame..., pretty strong words... I personally wouldn't be disappointed and welcome more bodies and especially better bodies and hopefully it will lead to more lenses (as rumored) as well. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest VVJ Posted September 24, 2017 Share #140 Posted September 24, 2017 With the TL2, having the option of no strap, no EVF and small lens makes the camera pocketable. You have large pockets!! For me personally the TL2 is not pocketable, so I wouldn't be bothered by a small increase in size although I very much like the form factor of the TL2. Perhaps Leica needs to get the Audi guys in again to brainstorm the design... 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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