Code Name "Clooney"

[AndreasAM]

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Leica should not compete with others by copying them.

Leica should use their own strengths: the image quality, built quality and user interface with the camera

For me a serious travel camera needs only a few dedicated very compact prime lenses ( I don’t like zooms) in a range of 18, 23, 35 (or 40),50 (or 60) mm.(aps-.c format) of moderate speed and only the highest image quality would suffice,

The camera can do the rest.

 

 

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[Einst_Stein]

>>Look the new Fuji X-E3. It looks more Leica than most Leica cameras and that at a fraction of the cost.

 

This sounds like many familiar comments from people who have never owned a genuine Leica digital but only compared the spec of diffetent brands (or only the price).

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[Einst_Stein]

>>Look the new Fuji X-E3. It looks more Leica than most Leica cameras and that at a fraction of the cost.

 

This sounds like many familiar comments from people who have never owned a genuine Leica digital but only compared the spec of diffetent brands (or only the price).

[Athornton]

One of the most highly regarded APSC systems is that developed by Fuji. At launch, the X-Pro1 with its 3 prime lenses (and M lens adapter) created interest, but the system really gained traction with the X-T1/2 bodies. I suspect this is not lost on Leica.

 

A more traditional body with viewfinder and physical controls would sit well within the current range and could create demand for, rather than take sales from, the TL2. Throw in Leica's build quality, simplicity, broad lens ecosystem and user experience, and I suspect you have a winner.

 

Unfortunately, with a likely launch in 3 weeks, nothing we say here will influence what is probably already on it's way to the dealers. However, we are all here because Leica has a habit of producing things we love and cannot resist. I hope and fear that the CL will be no exception.

 

Andrew

[Chaemono]

Many interesting comments in the last few posts here. Many seem to be on the right track. Let me add my five cents. It's simple. Leica decided to fill a gap for action/fast paced sports with an APS-C “SL” camera called CL. Why? Because it can be done more affordably and with a very snappy AF with excellent tracking. They hope that the CL grows the TAM (total addressable market)  and that it increases their SOW (share of wallet) with existing customers (meaning SL users will finally dump their DSLRs that they kept for sports and action). The body will hopefully be weather sealed and it can’t be much smaller than the SL so that it balances well with the zooms. See how the Fuji X-T2 was used to shoot a football game here: https://www.flickr.com/photos/30161756@N00/sets/72157675876622115

[miro]

Many interesting comments in the last few posts here. Many seem to be on the right track. Let me add my five cents. It's simple. Leica decided to fill a gap for action/fast paced sports with an APS-C “SL” camera called CL. Why? Because it can be done more affordably and with a very snappy AF with excellent tracking. They hope that the CL grows the TAM (total addressable market)  and that it increases their SOW (share of wallet) with existing customers (meaning SL users will finally dump their DSLRs that they kept for sports and action). The body will hopefully be weather sealed and it can’t be much smaller than the SL so that it balances well with the zooms. See how the Fuji X-T2 was used to shoot a football game here: https://www.flickr.com/photos/30161756@N00/sets/72157675876622115

 

Good point !

While the 18mm lens teaser has everyone thinking compact travel camera , Leica may in fact release a half frame SL .

[stevelap]

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Oh no - how could they???  Nov 22nd is my birthday! 

 

And so close to Christmas too.........

[Einst_Stein]

If CL is indeed a slightly taller TL for built in EVF, I doubt TL's future.

[LocalHero1953]

If CL is indeed a slightly taller TL for built in EVF, I doubt TL's future.

For the EVF to be sufficiently good to avoid grumbles, it will have to be physically big, and I believe they are normally fitted horizontal. The SL/TL basic body thickness is too small for the SL's EVF, hence a lump that sticks out at the back on both, with either a mirror or prism above. The challenge for Leica is to get a large enough sensor into a TL2 thickness body without breaking its cool modern lines. They could keep the lines by making the whole body much taller, or they could go for a more traditional shape with a bump in the middle. Or they could go out on a limb and have a fast and high res, but small EVF that fits within the TL thickness body. Those looking for a compact travel camera might accept such a compromise.

 

I am always surprised by Leica's ability to engineer itself out of the constraints of physics (perhaps higher magnification in the VF to make the EVF look bigger?), so I am as keen as anyone to see what they come up with. In a choice between a small svelte pocketable TL2 and a CL that is just a TL2 with a lump on top that catches on clothing and straps, I would take the TL2. I suspect I'm in a minority, but simple practice and persistence means that I find I can use the rear screen most of the time for framing and AF, and for MF with the TL lenses that automatically trigger focus magnification. Putting the separate EVF on the TL2 for macro/closeups and occasional M lenses is not a hardship.

[jaapv]

I would disagree. I have a GX8, with a compact EVF - mimicking the rangefinder form, and it rivals the SL one.

[LocalHero1953]

I would disagree. I have a GX8, with a compact EVF - mimicking the rangefinder form, and it rivals the SL one.

I'm prepared to be proved wrong - though the MFT flange sensor distance is slightly larger than the L flange sensor distance, it only gives Panasonic another 0.25 mm to play with. I don't doubt that it is possible to have a large, clear, fast EVF in a small body, but Leica has yet to do it.

 

The GX8, though, already has a centimetre of height above the TL2, and fully 3 cm greater thickness on paper, though without them both in hand it is difficult to assess how thick the GX8 'feels' compared to the TL. People may be willing to accept a chunkier form factor in a CL if it includes a EVF, but it still looks like it would be significantly bigger than the TL2.

Edited November 3, 2017 by LocalHero1953

[Einst_Stein]

You should check out Hasselblad H1D. Its flange distance is only 1mm longer, but I am yet to find its bump.

[stevelap]

I would hope that if/when 'Clooney' appears it has a rangefinder rather than a 'humped' DSLR form factor.  I had a T when they first launched but I never managed to warm to the clip-on Visoflex concept.

[Guest VVJ]

>>Look the new Fuji X-E3. It looks more Leica than most Leica cameras and that at a fraction of the cost.

 

This sounds like many familiar comments from people who have never owned a genuine Leica digital but only compared the spec of diffetent brands (or only the price).

 

It does, doesn't it.   I do own 6 digital Leica bodies and used to own 3 Fuji bodies. 

 

I prefer Leica and have pretty much standardized on Leica although I still have a bunch of older (mostly medium format) non-Leica gear that I hardly use anymore.

 

The point that I was trying to make was that if Leica wants to justify the price difference with Fuji they have to do better than Fuji. 

 

Just a compact camera with 3 small lenses IMO is not going to cut it.

 

In any case, I have no problem applauding Fuji for making a high quality kit available at that price.  The equivalent Leica kit would set you back almost $4K, more than 3 times as much.  That is a lot of money...

[AndreasAM]

Just a compact camera with 3 small lenses IMO is not going to cut it.

...

Perhaps you should rephrase it as:

Just a compact camera with 3 small lenses IMO is not only going to cut it.

 

I am not saying that Leica isn’t capable of doing more with the L-mount and an new APS-C sensor, but because of de developments in de digital worlds and subsequently their need to change their lineup a compact travel camera of the highest standard is now preferable to come out.

I can see in the future when more sensor developments are coming out, that a APS-C SL body would/could be a useful addition next to a high Mpixel FF, but not in a mini-body

 

 

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[jaapv]

I'm prepared to be proved wrong - though the MFT flange sensor distance is slightly larger than the L flange sensor distance, it only gives Panasonic another 0.25 mm to play with. I don't doubt that it is possible to have a large, clear, fast EVF in a small body, but Leica has yet to do it.

 

The GX8, though, already has a centimetre of height above the TL2, and fully 3 cm greater thickness on paper, though without them both in hand it is difficult to assess how thick the GX8 'feels' compared to the TL. People may be willing to accept a chunkier form factor in a CL if it includes a EVF, but it still looks like it would be significantly bigger than the TL2.

TBH, I find the TL too skimpy in my hands, and the GX8 just right. It is certainly more svelte than the M10 (which comes as no surprise, given the difference in sensor size)

The EVF is OLED, which certainly makes a difference, enabling SL EVF quality in a small form factor.

[Chaemono]

While the 18mm lens teaser has everyone thinking compact travel camera , Leica may in fact release a half frame SL .

Exactly. It's a red herring. Besides, there is already an APS-C compact travel camera with interchangeable lenses called TL2 and they wouldn't do a big "Das Wesentliche" event for it. Let's take it further. How about no blackout EVF? Actually, I'm not sure about that one but I'm pretty sure about the snappy AF with excellent tracking for birds in flight, etc. Of course, Sony has all that in FF with the A9 and A7RIII but Leica has better lenses and on a crop sensor the 90-280SL will give you enough reach while maintaining the 24 MP resolution.

Edited November 3, 2017 by Chaemono

[miro]

... however , due to the CL codename and invitation reference to Oskar's Legacy , my final guess is the camera will be closer to a ICL , ASP-C , Q .

[LocalHero1953]

The key question, IMO, is whether it is APS-C or full frame.

 

If full frame, then it will set the cat among the pigeons among M owners, and will be seen as the new future of Leica. If APS-C, then it will cause less of a stir and will be less disruptive: a compact Leica for those who can't live with an add-on EVF on the TL2.

 

Das Wesentliche and Oskar's Legacy makes me think full frame, M-shape and a new beginning.

"CL", by analogy with it's forerunner, makes me think APS-C but more capable and more traditional than the TL2.

 

I tend towards the former at the moment.

Edited November 3, 2017 by LocalHero1953

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica L-Mount

[miro]

it's APS-C .

The lens drawing on the invitation is the new 18mm TL , 27mm ff = .