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Code Name "Clooney"

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Page 12 now.

At a guess we'll reach page 50 at least by 22nd November, possibly >70.

 

 

for 70+ pages, we cant sleep for that many minutes between the contributions (already 31 min since last posting...).

 

So - a big plus for an L-mount body with embedded EVF - whether it has a cropped or full framed sensor.

 

But where to place a possible CL compared to TL2 and SL?

Edited by helged

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....But where to place a possible CL compared to TL2 and SL?

There will be an announcement for a larger bag as well.

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There will be an announcement for a larger bag as well.

 

 

Excellent. With an anticipated bag in the mix - not to forget straps and cases and taping of the logo - the thread can be expected to pass 100+ pages by Nov 22 

. Edited by helged

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Then there will be the thread about Leica not supporting the line with a complete set of lenses.

 

Finished by a thread about the failure of the system, and that Leica is abandoning it in about, oh, 6 months?

Edited by IkarusJohn

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Excellent. With an anticipated bag in the mix - not to forget straps and cases and taping of the logo - the thread can be expected to pass 100+ pages by Nov 22 

.

It will not be possible to tape the logo. It has a non-sticking surface, engineered after the surface of the lotus flower.

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Guest NEIL-D-WILLIAMS

Sorry I just cant make myself go back 12 pages............is this so called Clooney going to be a cropped sensor or maybe a FF sensor. I need something to screw my Noctilux onto

:)

 

Neil

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If you look at both pictures, it is evident that in introducing the compact X1, some years ago, its formfactor was Leica’s reference to “Oscars legacy.”

Still use it, when I go hiking, nice and compact, fits in your pocket and comes with a great little lens and sensor, nice colours in 12 Mp, but tooooooo slow nowadays.

 

A further evolution of the X-series, in the same compact form, is only possible with a fixed lens and APS-C, not to compete with the Q.

I don’t think there is a market for this any more, the phone has completely taken over this segment. Ergo the X-series is dead....

 

The picture of the CL actually, says it all. It screams “make me digital!!”

A CL, digital, with the same form factor will fit the bill nicely for a high quality travelcamera with a set of two/three dedicated very compact TL-lenses, like the old CL had. The already leaked pancake 18 mm. Elmarit, the Cron 23 mm.and additionally a very compact standard lens with moderate speed, so a Summicron 35 (52 mm. eq) or why not, perhaps even better a 40 mm. (60 mm. eq.)

Give it the inerts and all the other qualities of the TL2 but with a good quality integrated EVF, wrap it nicely in a updated cool, even a bit nostalgic, CL-design with buttons, with additional nice colours, sell them with the two new lenses in a nice very small bag and Bob’s your uncle. All the wrongdoings of the introduction of the “mini-M” of some years ago will be finally forgotten.

 

I also won’t mention the Electronic Rangefinder (OERF) anymore....

 

Now this CL could get as popular as the old one............ ooh no!

Edited by AndreasAM

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for 70+ pages, we cant sleep for that many minutes between the contributions (already 31 min since last posting...).

 

So - a big plus for an L-mount body with embedded EVF - whether it has a cropped or full framed sensor.

 

But where to place a possible CL compared to TL2 and SL?

 

Maybe place it between TL2 and X?

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I don't think that Leica are going to introduce a digital CL. The CL was a cheaper camera than the M, but still 'full frame' - no difference in image size/quality as such, but it wasn't an alternative to the M either - limited frame lines, dedicated 40mm lens etc. 

 

The Clooney is (if my predictions are correct) likely to be a mini SL, not a mini M. It's an APSC AF system camera, not a manual focus rangefinder. 

 

Of course APSC is fine for most uses and offers size and cost benefits over FF. It will be plenty good enough for most users, but people buy Leica M's because it's not AF, it's not like any other digital camera. So it won't be a choice between a 'Clooney' or an M. 

 

I hope Leica make more of the T line, and that the new camera is a more of a serious photographers camera. 

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Let’s analyse when a mini-SL would make sense.

 

The SL is a ‘do-all’ mirrorless camera, which has as the most reputed qualities: AF, FF, better sensor with good DR, ISO and shutterspeeds, an electronic shutter, good video capabilities and full video ports,ruggedness, is weatherproof, direct adaptability to all Leica system lenses, or with adapters almost all third party lenses, it has a size suitable for the bigger long or special lenses, usable in extreme weather with gloves, a superb and simple UI, fast processor, big battery, good grip, dual memory cards, a growing number of excellent AF-lenses filling eventually a complete range and ..... the best EVF on the market.

 

Afl these qualities result in a serious multifunctional camera for... the professional or serious amateur but with a serious price tag.

 

Now which of these qualities are or need to be transferred to a APS-C mirrorless camera, to make a defining mini SL and for whom?

When you downsize the camera in such a scale that it makes a difference, a few mentioned qualities are immediately lost; the ergonomics when using bigger or special lenses or gloves, bigger battery, good grip, size of buttons, dual memory cards, full video ports, room for the great EVF, room for the electronics related to the ultimate qualities mentioned above.

 

What’s left, without giving the camera “A7R” fiddly qualities; AF, a better APS-C sensor, video, weatherproof, adaptability of the (smaller) Leica lenses, the good UI, excellent (but still not so small) TL lenses, a Q-like EVF, a bit more compactness.

 

This will undoubtedly be a excellent camera, I might be tempted, but for what purpose? As a backup for the SL?, A step up camera from the TL for people with increasing photographic aspirations? I can’t see the unique selling point and it will undoubtedly come with a price. I think the end result will be too much a muddled compromise, losing out to the FF-SL in the end.

 

The same can be said for what the identity of the current TL is at the moment.

The T, when introduced, came with a unique UI and an appealing modern compact minimal design. The first prime lens and system zoom made it a very compact unit.

For this, at that moment in the digital camera age, and because of the quality of the images I bought into it. It stood out in the crowd and it still does. But in practice you need the EVF to use all its potential and together with the last primes the compactness got a bit lost. I can’t see for instance the range of lenses expanding beyond 60 mm. or include UWA because of size compromises.

 

The potential of the L- mount is enormous. The path for the development of the SL is clear, develop the best mirrorless SLR as possible, with the best possible lenses and chase the position of the current dominant SLR’s. And by doing this make Leica’s position in the market futureproof, something the M can’t deliver up to a certain point.

 

Leica looks a bit lost what to do with the TL system, it should be looking for a better identity for the APS-C system.

 

In a previous comment (#234) I explained why I see the potential for a compact travel camera with high image quality, also for the serious photographer, ... when he/she doesn’t need all the gear. When you travel every ounce, every inch counts, when you really want to feel comfortable with a camera. Ruggedness, weatherproof, easy to use, high image quality; no compromises should be made in those respects.

I used a Rollei 35s for this purpose, next to my Hassy 903swc, in my early filmdays. Fitted perfectly in the palm of my hand, made tons of slides with it.

 

In my experience the TL with the external EVF doesn’t make it for this purpose, just yet.

 

Leica will exchange the income of X-series, the Dlux,Vlux soon, if it hasn’t already, for the Huaweis etc. But it still needs a compact high quality camera in it’s line-up.

 

Leica looks nowadays always really close to it’s historic success stories when developing a new camera, hence the staying power of the M and the (re-)introduction of a digital SL. They also know, way better then I do, when a system is due, because of the state of available or upcoming technology or the demand in the market.

 

But I think it is time for a really compact camera with a recognisable identity, that has the potential to be relevant in a few years

 

In comes the CL.... let’s see.

Edited by AndreasAM

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Guest VVJ

In a previous comment (#234) I explained why I see the potential for a compact travel camera with high image quality, also for the serious photographer, ... 

 

Leica IMO needs to do better than that though...   They do need (more) compact lenses (I am personally thrilled about the 18mm) but at the same time they also need (more) reference lenses a la 35mm.

 

As a compact travel camera only they will never be able to compete with Fuji who already does this, has a lens line-up of more than 20 (also excellent) lenses and sells those at a price that is 3-5 lower than Leica.

 

Look the new Fuji X-E3.  It looks more Leica than most Leica cameras and that at a fraction of the cost:

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1358087-REG/fujifilm_16559053_x_e3_mirrorless_digital_camera.html

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