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dkCambridgeshire

TL2 anomalies: (1) Focus peaking (2) Viso operation

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I did some more testing today. New TL2 f.w. 1.1

 

With TL lenses peaking works just fine. I tried all the ones I have (all except the 60mm) and peaking worked great. Also worked in b&W mode. Someone queried that.

 

Also tested with a range of M lenses using the Leica M-L adaptor. Peaking is very weak. I tried coded and un-coded lenses and couldn't see the peaking with any of them. I can see the peaking *IF* I zoom in but it's inconsistent in that sometimes it doesn't show on objects that are obviously in focus and sometimes it does.

 

So to me it looks like peaking works with TL lenses but not with M lenses using the official adaptor. I don't think this is intended behaviour. I'm going to report this to Leica.

 

Gordon

This was indeed my experience as well. Thanks for posting.

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...

It's only adapted M lenses I can't easily see the peaking at all.

...

 

Gordon

Same here. I’ve only tried focus peaking with M lenses, not with the native TL lenses. But it’s on adapted lenses where it would be most needed!

 

- Vikas

Edited by vikasmg

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On my TL2 using the Visoflex I only see a white screen through the eyepiece. The camera monitor is fine and am able to focus. i tried the visoflex on the T and it works fine.

Is there something I am missing with the Visoflex on the TL 2? shouldn't it work the same way on the TL2 as it does on the T?

The TL 2 is running firmware 1.1

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It feels like going against the grain here, but... I don't think it's likely that the lens choice has much to do with focus peaking working or not.

Focus peaking is implemented with an edge detect image filter. This works in two dimensions based on the image that's obtained from the sensor (see footnote links).

There are of course parameters that control the filter and quite a few different filters, but a longer / shorter / manual / auto-focus lens has no impact; the only thing that matters is what's in the frame, which is to say, subject and exposure.

 

My TL2 with an M mount lens does peaking just fine. It doesn't detect certain edges I might have expected it to, if the contrast between these and the background is not significant, although I do see that those places are perfect focus.

If checking on your camera TL/SL vs M lenses for peaking, make sure you have the correct setting in the menu (I have peaking + zoom, and I zoom to verify), and that you're looking at the same scene in the same light with the same exposure settings and focusing at the same spot.

Since I only have manual M mount lenses, I cannot test manual focus & peaking on the TL2 myself, but it does work with random M mount lenses (I've just tried a pancake Voigtlander 2.5/35).

 

I didn't have any issues with the EVF I've been using on the T on the TL2 (yet - the camera is barely out of the box!), but... just last week my T did misbehave with respect to detecting the EVF; it was automatically switching to the EVF via the eye sensor, but the EVF remained black. After some jiggling, removals and camera restart it worked again, thankfully, but it was pretty scary.

 

Only 10 minutes later I have to edit this post: I do have an issue with the EVF on the TL2 - if I set the function button to Play or Video, it should switch between the LCD and the EVF based on the eye sensor, but it doesn't. I tried turning off and back on, removing etc. The EVF works fine if I set the function button to manually switch between the two, but it seems like the eye sensor is not recognised by the camera, or the EVF's sensor died. I cannot confirm right now by testing on my original T because it's battery's out, but will get back to this.

 

 

Some 20 minutes later, the T's battery charged just enough to start for a minute, testing shows that the EVF's sensor works as expected on the T.

So the TL, with the function button set to Play or Video, does not switch between the EVF and the LCD; I can switch manually if I set the function button to do that.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Focus_peaking

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edge_detection

Edited by rpopescu

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It feels like going against the grain here, but... I don't think it's likely that the lens choice has much to do with focus peaking working or not.

Focus peaking is implemented with an edge detect image filter. This works in two dimensions based on the image that's obtained from the sensor (see footnote links).

There are of course parameters that control the filter and quite a few different filters, but a longer / shorter / manual / auto-focus lens has no impact; the only thing that matters is what's in the frame, which is to say, subject and exposure.

 

My TL2 with an M mount lens does peaking just fine. It doesn't detect certain edges I might have expected it to, if the contrast between these and the background is not significant, although I do see that those places are perfect focus.

If checking on your camera TL/SL vs M lenses for peaking, make sure you have the correct setting in the menu (I have peaking + zoom, and I zoom to verify), and that you're looking at the same scene in the same light with the same exposure settings and focusing at the same spot.

Since I only have manual M mount lenses, I cannot test manual focus & peaking on the TL2 myself, but it does work with random M mount lenses (I've just tried a pancake Voigtlander 2.5/35).

 

I didn't have any issues with the EVF I've been using on the T on the TL2 (yet - the camera is barely out of the box!), but... just last week my T did misbehave with respect to detecting the EVF; it was automatically switching to the EVF via the eye sensor, but the EVF remained black. After some jiggling, removals and camera restart it worked again, thankfully, but it was pretty scary.

 

Only 10 minutes later I have to edit this post: I do have an issue with the EVF on the TL2 - if I set the function button to Play or Video, it should switch between the LCD and the EVF based on the eye sensor, but it doesn't. I tried turning off and back on, removing etc. The EVF works fine if I set the function button to manually switch between the two, but it seems like the eye sensor is not recognised by the camera, or the EVF's sensor died. I cannot confirm right now by testing on my original T because it's battery's out, but will get back to this.

 

 

Some 20 minutes later, the T's battery charged just enough to start for a minute, testing shows that the EVF's sensor works as expected on the T.

So the TL, with the function button set to Play or Video, does not switch between the EVF and the LCD; I can switch manually if I set the function button to do that.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Focus_peaking

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edge_detection

 

 

Does the menu of the T(L)s allow configuration for different behaviour of switching between EVF/LCD for a specific context (play back, normal, video ...)?

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Does the menu of the T(L)s allow configuration for different behaviour of switching between EVF/LCD for a specific context (play back, normal, video ...)?

 

 

I for one tried many times to find anything concerning switching between EFV and LCD in the menus of the TL2, and came up empty, save for the function button setting.

I remember seeing an EVF eye detection sensitivity option, but that must be on my Q.

 

I noticed something else regarding the peaking: if you are shown red lines (edges) in a certain magnification, when changing magnification these may very well disappear, and then show up again when switching to the original magnification at which those edges appeared. Which leads me to the conclusion that the edge detection/peaking is applied to the zoomed image in fact, not to the full frame.

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After advising my dealer that the TL2's 'auto switching' between monitor viewing and VISO/EVF viewing was not always working / available, and that when it does work, the EVF/VISO can suddenly stop working (whence camera reverts to monitor image only) … my dealer arranged for the camera to b returned to Wetzlar for exchange.  I'd also mentioned that focus peaking is not working - and that a Leica Forum friend had also checked the focus peaking and he also confirmed that focus peaking in MF mode was not working / not available. Before sending the camera to Wetzlar, I decided to thoroughly re-read the instruction manual to make doubly sure the EVF malfunction is in fact a camera anomaly and not me misunderstanding the various modes. After double checking and performing a reset I can confirm there is an intermittent EVF auto switching anomaly which is sometimes apparent on start up when no EVF/VISO image is available … and sometimes suddenly happens after a few minutes when the EVF/VISO cuts out and the camera reverts / defaults to monitor image only. Restoring the EVF/VISO image requires several camera restarts  … or lens changes … or removal and replacing the EVF.   This anomaly occurs in the Fn button's default 'video mode'.  When the Fn button is changed to EVF mode, it is possible to turn the EVF on permanently ... and it stays on … but pressing the Fn button again will not enable 'auto switching' between EVF/VISO and monitor image … it reverts to monitor image only.  And I've double checked to make sure that focus peaking is not functioning and can confirm focus peaking isn't available. In short, the camera is not functioning in the way that it should … so it's going back to Wetzlar for replacement. These anomalies were apparent prior to installing firmware 1.1; my camera is one of those which did not suddenly 'die' when the Viso was used; but I'm wondering if maybe the camera's electronics have been partially compromised by using the VISO with the original firmware?  i stopped using the VISO after Leica Camera AG's announcement that it might cause a malfunction … and recommenced using the VISO after firmware 1.1. was released and installed.   I need the VISO function to operate whenever needed … and need it to operate reliably without cutting out … and I also need the focus peaking .  Some might say that the peaking is not important … but the camera should 'do what it says on the tin' … and with my current project i.e. photographing a cormorant colony at 140 meters distance with various long focus lenses I need the focus peaking facility for the whole image . The magnified view is insufficient … I need to see all the birds in the frame.  A friend using his Sony A7II for the same project has the benefit of focus peaking … and it's a revelation to see the focus peaking on his camera monitor. The TL2 is going back to Wetzlar later today for replacement … and I'll recommence the cormorant project using my SL … but would prefer to use the TL2 because of its 1.5x crop factor with the longer legacy lenses. 

 

dunk 

Edited by dkCambridgeshire

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Guest VVJ

I just tried manually focusing the TL-23mm.  No focus peaking for me when combined with magnification.  I do get focus peaking when I selecting only focus peaking without magnification...

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I have just tried manually focussing the TL 23mm as well. I get focus peaking in the Viso with and without magnification! (Edit: I realise I posted something similar above - old age creeping in!)

 

I have also just checked the TL2 with the SEM 21mm (the nearest M lens I have to the TL 23mm) and the official M-L adapter. I get focus magnification (with the left dial) but I can see no focus peaking. It should be straightforward in the firmware to switch on focus peaking as well as magnification, according to your settings, with the left dial.

Edited by LocalHero1953

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Guest VVJ

It is not good that every body seems to behave differently... I will probably try a reset once as well at some point...

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After advising my dealer that the TL2's 'auto switching' between monitor viewing and VISO/EVF viewing was not always working / available, and that when it does work, the EVF/VISO can suddenly stop working (whence camera reverts to monitor image only) … my dealer arranged for the camera to b returned to Wetzlar for exchange.  I'd also mentioned that focus peaking is not working - and that a Leica Forum friend had also checked the focus peaking and he also confirmed that focus peaking in MF mode was not working / not available. Before sending the camera to Wetzlar, I decided to thoroughly re-read the instruction manual to make doubly sure the EVF malfunction is in fact a camera anomaly and not me misunderstanding the various modes. After double checking and performing a reset I can confirm there is an intermittent EVF auto switching anomaly which is sometimes apparent on start up when no EVF/VISO image is available … and sometimes suddenly happens after a few minutes when the EVF/VISO cuts out and the camera reverts / defaults to monitor image only. Restoring the EVF/VISO image requires several camera restarts  … or lens changes … or removal and replacing the EVF.   This anomaly occurs in the Fn button's default 'video mode'.  When the Fn button is changed to EVF mode, it is possible to turn the EVF on permanently ... and it stays on … but pressing the Fn button again will not enable 'auto switching' between EVF/VISO and monitor image … it reverts to monitor image only.  And I've double checked to make sure that focus peaking is not functioning and can confirm focus peaking isn't available. In short, the camera is not functioning in the way that it should … so it's going back to Wetzlar for replacement. These anomalies were apparent prior to installing firmware 1.1; my camera is one of those which did not suddenly 'die' when the Viso was used; but I'm wondering if maybe the camera's electronics have been partially compromised by using the VISO with the original firmware?  i stopped using the VISO after Leica Camera AG's announcement that it might cause a malfunction … and recommenced using the VISO after firmware 1.1. was released and installed.   I need the VISO function to operate whenever needed … and need it to operate reliably without cutting out … and I also need the focus peaking .  Some might say that the peaking is not important … but the camera should 'do what it says on the tin' … and with my current project i.e. photographing a cormorant colony at 140 meters distance with various long focus lenses I need the focus peaking facility for the whole image . The magnified view is insufficient … I need to see all the birds in the frame.  A friend using his Sony A7II for the same project has the benefit of focus peaking … and it's a revelation to see the focus peaking on his camera monitor. The TL2 is going back to Wetzlar later today for replacement … and I'll recommence the cormorant project using my SL … but would prefer to use the TL2 because of its 1.5x crop factor with the longer legacy lenses. 

 

dunk 

 

 

 

Further to my 11 August post and when setting the FN button to EVF mode, enabling the Visoflex EVF to be switched on permanently . The instruction manual Page143  definitely states that whilst in this mode, pressing the FN button switches off the EVF … but enables the Auto Switch between monitor and EVF … thus placing the eye to the EVF should once again switch on the VISO image .

 

Page 143: Setting the function button to switch the viewfinder on

permanently

► In the main menu, select

► In , select

Note:

With this function active, pressing the function button results in the

monitor image never appearing, i.e. regardless of whether or not

you are looking through the viewfinder. Pressing the function

button again reactivates automatic switching between viewfinder

and monitor.

 

 

 

 However, my TL2 would not go into the Auto Switch mode when the FN button was pressed. I'm wondering if there is an error in the instruction manual or if this anomaly was peculiar to my particular TL2 body. Could you please check your TL2 when the FN button is set to EVF mode, to establish if your camera reverts back to auto switching between the EVF and monitor , when the FN is pressed?

 

Thank you.

 

dunk 

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No, mine doesn't go to Auto Switch either. 

It's not a Fn button assignment I use (I've set it to Play), but if I did I would want it to keep the current behaviour!

 

I suspect the manual was written on the basis of early firmware. There are other discrepancies like this.

Edited by LocalHero1953

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My TL2 is en route to Wetzlar but when returned I'd have a use for the Auto Switch mode when using the EVF via the FN EVF mode … so I can observe the rear screen monitor comfortably, and then quickly revert to 'permanent' EVF live view … by pressing the FN button to enable permanent EVF live view. 

 

dunk 

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I tried focus peaking and magnification on my 23 , 60 and R 60 macro lens. The magnification works really well. I did see the peaking with the 60mif I looked really hard. I was unable to see it with the R lens or the 23 lens.

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I tried focus peaking and magnification on my 23 , 60 and R 60 macro lens. The magnification works really well. I did see the peaking with the 60mif I looked really hard. I was unable to see it with the R lens or the 23 lens.

 

 

Can you possibly try again with the 23, magnify, and change focus slowly?

I think the algorithm they use is much less aggressive than the one used in the Q, for instance, and many times things that are clearly in focus do not get the highlights as they should; for example, if I focus with a 50mm equivalent on a computer screen on black text on white background, it basically never shows up, but I can get it to show up on e.g. the seconds hand on my watch, or branches outside seen through half-open vertical blinds...

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Can you possibly try again with the 23, magnify, and change focus slowly?

I think the algorithm they use is much less aggressive than the one used in the Q, for instance, and many times things that are clearly in focus do not get the highlights as they should; for example, if I focus with a 50mm equivalent on a computer screen on black text on white background, it basically never shows up, but I can get it to show up on e.g. the seconds hand on my watch, or branches outside seen through half-open vertical blinds...

 

 

 

The whole point of a focus peaking facility/mode is to enable efficient focus. If it only works if the image is magnified, and if the photographer focuses slowly, then it's not efficient and probably not worth using - unless imaging e.g. a static scene or still life … which most images ain't. Fact is, focus peaking on other cameras is very much clearer and easier, and quicker. 

 

dunk 

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The whole point of a focus peaking facility/mode is to enable efficient focus. If it only works if the image is magnified, and if the photographer focuses slowly, then it's not efficient and probably not worth using - unless imaging e.g. a static scene or still life … which most images ain't. Fact is, focus peaking on other cameras is very much clearer and easier, and quicker. 

 

dunk 

 

It doesn't only work when magnified, and I don't think it's particularly good on the TL2 either, which can also be seen from my comment about how it's better on the Q.

My point was to distinguish between it not working at all, as in really not working, and working in a less than optimal manner. It's a crucial difference.

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Guest VVJ

I just tried manually focusing the TL-23mm.  No focus peaking for me when combined with magnification.  I do get focus peaking when I selecting only focus peaking without magnification...

 

I just tried resetting my TL2.

 

I now get very weak (but really very weak) focus peaking with the TL-23mm when combined with focus magnification.

 

Not sure whether it is the reset that did it or whether I am just paying more attention and going slower (after reading other comments) to discover at least some form of peaking...

 

This feature is IMO clearly not ready for prime time yet and will require a few more firmware upgrades.  Disappointing to say the least.

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On my TL2 using the Visoflex I only see a white screen through the eyepiece. The camera monitor is fine and am able to focus. i tried the visoflex on the T and it works fine.

Is there something I am missing with the Visoflex on the TL 2? shouldn't it work the same way on the TL2 as it does on the T?

The TL 2 is running firmware 1.1

Something is definitely wrong. It should work like it does on the T.

 

- Vikas

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