Blackstone in talks to sell stake in Leica

[jaapv]

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Volkscamera? Whenever did that apply to Leica ? Your post appears to be of all times.

[Rona!d]

So, to a company that has had a great past and seemingly no future, I simply say: RIP!

 

 

So, to a photographer who had a great "photography award" past and seemingly no "photography award" future, I simply say RIP photography awards ;-)

 

Sorry, this sports snapshot looks more like a failed overphotoshopped late night experience. I can´t believe it´s been published worldwide in a Leica forum to show "Leica beating quality".

 

R.

 

btw. Nikons can do much better than your proof of quality.

 

(my personal point of view, not as a moderator)

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[UliWer]

This 'investment' points to another cash sink in the business arena. I have seen several shops where I often pass that once had several staff hanging around and over time are slowly closing entrance doors and moving staff to an adjacent camera store through internal corridors.

If this is widespread and long-during then it signals a problem area. If Leica headquraters took over the Frankfurt store to prove the viability or study improvements such as the gallery space, even more so. I'm afraid a gallery space will create a steady flow of visitors (how much?) but might not improve the buying propensity of clientele of gear.

 

....

Well, of course one may differ whether investments in stores and especially galleries are wise as far as profit is concerned.

 

If one looks closer one finds quite a lot of similar investments, like Leica Galleries in Salzburg or the acquisition of Westlicht in Vienna. It is clear that all those activities go back to the personal whim of Dr. Kaufmann and his wife.

 

Though it was the same irrational whim which led Kaufmann to invest in Leica. It would have been much more profitable for him to put his money in something which proposed much better margins than old-fashioned cameras and lenses. If just the amount of money to be gained by an investment had been the decisive factor, Leica Camera would have ceased to exist a decade ago. Perhaps the brand name would have survived like "Voigtländer", "Rollei" or "Contax", but production would have gone from Solms or Wetzlar to unknown places in asia. Kaufmann's decision to invest in Leica was as whimsical as his investment in galleries.

 

We have seen in the meantime that even while this person seems a little bit weird as far as capitalist rationality is concerned, he is not naive. Dealsharing with someone like Blackstone shows it. Leica is profitable. One may discuss if it was more profitable without all those galleries, and M- or S-Magazines and Leitz-Parks and so on. It all comes down to the question, if one wants to use money to gain more money or to achieve something else with it.

Edited August 5, 2017 by UliWer

[TheGodParticle/Hari]

This is Dr. Martin Folb from Los Angeles. I was a long time Leica user starting in college, and eventually entered the International Salons with over 5000 acceptances and 1000 medals. This included 15 of the prestigious Charles A. Kinsley Memorial Trophies presented by Eastman Kodak at the PSA (Photographic Society of America) International Salon. I often gave a rather spectacular slide show for the Leica Seminars and knew and worked with Walter Heun. I was fortunate enough to win First Prize in the 1980 Leica "OLYMPIAD OF COLOR PHOTOGRAPHY".　

　

I give this information so as to indicate that I was a very serious Leica devotee and used the Leicaflex SL, R3 and R8 cameras. Serious photographers that were doing nature, sports or macro-photography never really embraced rangefinder cameras because of their limited abilities in these areas. To be honest, I am surprised that Leica even still exists as a company, and I am not surprised that Blackstone wants out. Leica began marketing their NAME with all of the so-called "instant collectibles" (50 Yahre, Oscar Barnack and god knows how many others!) They decided to become a boutique company, catering to wealthy professional people who simply wanted to say, "Look at me, I have a Leica"! I think I lost real interest in the company when, instead of bringing out an R-10 that would allow the use of my R lenses in a 35 mm. format and introduce new, fast autofocus glass, they embarked on the ridiculous S series. That camera, except in a studio environment, was essentially worthless in the field!　

　

Believe me, I wanted to continue being a Leica devotee, but the company had lost their significance in the modern world of digital photography. All of their offerings today, are not really very exciting or useful and are extremely overpriced. I currently use a Nikon D5, and it will totally outperform ANYTHING that Leica makes today. I still have some of my R lenses, especially the macro type, which through adapters can be used with either the Nikon or Canon cameras. Believe me, I would much rather have been using an R-10 or (maybe by now an R-12). I have attached one example of a photo taken with the D5; it would be almost impossible (unfortunately) to duplicate this with the current batch of Leica's!

　

So, to a company that has had a great past and seemingly no future, I simply say: RIP!

Is this a cellphone shot of a tv screen during a PS3/Xbox game? Looks awful

[wlaidlaw]

Is this a cellphone shot of a tv screen during a PS3/Xbox game? Looks awful

 

I bet he wishes he had kept his mouth shut now after the unbelievable ego trip of the beginning of his post.......and then posting that awful photo with blown highlights and dreadful colour. My children would have deleted that one from their iPhones as "not worth keeping." I do love schadenfreude on a Saturday afternoon. 

 

Wilson

[Guest]

Tricked you! The name's not unknown to you

Not really ,every paper is covering the story. Add to that Radio and TV.

[Peter H]

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Not really ,every paper is covering the story. Add to that Radio and TV.

 

 

Well, he is a brilliant footballer, almost certainly one of the three best in the world at present. That makes him interesting to quite a lot of people.

 

If you don't like football, he's less interesting than if you do. 

[sml_photo]

Hmmm....I imagine that when a business is looking for an investment or a partner, they would do something to "dress up" the balance sheet or present a positive view of the future direction of the company.  I wonder if Leica has anything else, besides the present offerings and features, up their sleeve.  ( On the other hand, the TL2 issue probably didn't help foster a positive view of the company.)

[TheGodParticle/Hari]

I bet he wishes he had kept his mouth shut now after the unbelievable ego trip of the beginning of his post.......and then posting that awful photo with blown highlights and dreadful colour. My children would have deleted that one from their iPhones as "not worth keeping." I do love schadenfreude on a Saturday afternoon.

 

Wilson

And it's not just the bad image, what's with the "devotee" status? Or the very puerile "All of their offerings today, are not really very exciting or useful and are extremely overpriced" - Seriously?

[tonyniev]

And it's not just the bad image, what's with the "devotee" status? Or the very puerile "All of their offerings today, are not really very exciting or useful and are extremely overpriced" - Seriously?

 

Leica M10 pricing and the summarit/elmarit/elmar lenses prices have become very reasonable when compared with other manufacturers. 4 years ago when I decided to go mirrorless from DSLR , the new Sony A7R was priced at $2300 body plus lenses from $900- $1400. Now the Sony A9 is priced at $4200 body and G lenses above $2000. Canon 1DX is at $5999 and Nikon D5 at $7999 and lenses at $ 1200-2000.

 

I decided to go Leica M10 because of 1. Weight and size  2. Fun of shooting with Leica,I like the color rendering, image quality etc. 3. Cost/Price is not to far from Japanese makers, and actually cheaper if I consider I can use the camera over a long time, 4. Brings back memories of years past, I first started using Leica 49 years ago before moving to Nikon, back to Leica M3, then DSLR Canon and Mirroless Sony.

 

A pragmatic approach from an amateur photographer for more than 50 years. 

[almoore]

This is Dr. Martin Folb from Los Angeles. I was a long time Leica user starting in college, and eventually entered the International Salons with over 5000 acceptances and 1000 medals. This included 15 of the prestigious Charles A. Kinsley Memorial Trophies presented by Eastman Kodak at the PSA (Photographic Society of America) International Salon. I often gave a rather spectacular slide show for the Leica Seminars and knew and worked with Walter Heun. I was fortunate enough to win First Prize in the 1980 Leica "OLYMPIAD OF COLOR PHOTOGRAPHY".

A thousand medals, but too modest to reveal the greatest accolade of your starry career, the Baron Munchausen Award for Lifetime Achievement in Fantasy Photography.

[TheGodParticle/Hari]

A thousand medals, but too modest to reveal the greatest accolade of your starry career, the Baron Munchausen Award for Lifetime Achievement in Fantasy Photography.

Come on now, you do realize his modesty is to take care of our sensitivities? Wouldn't it embarrass us, Bigly?

 

A thousand medals! Sounds a lot like this -> https://youtu.be/u_aLESDql1U

[TheGodParticle/Hari]

Leica M10 pricing and the summarit/elmarit/elmar lenses prices have become very reasonable when compared with other manufacturers. 4 years ago when I decided to go mirrorless from DSLR , the new Sony A7R was priced at $2300 body plus lenses from $900- $1400. Now the Sony A9 is priced at $4200 body and G lenses above $2000. Canon 1DX is at $5999 and Nikon D5 at $7999 and lenses at $ 1200-2000.

 

I decided to go Leica M10 because of 1. Weight and size 2. Fun of shooting with Leica,I like the color rendering, image quality etc. 3. Cost/Price is not to far from Japanese makers, and actually cheaper if I consider I can use the camera over a long time, 4. Brings back memories of years past, I first started using Leica 49 years ago before moving to Nikon, back to Leica M3, then DSLR Canon and Mirroless Sony.

 

A pragmatic approach from an amateur photographer for more than 50 years.

and the second hand value that holds quite well should you want to sell it at a later date

[bilbrown]

I can think of two reasons for selling: Leica is a financial disaster zone and they want to cut their losses, or it's a successful turnaround after the dark days, is now making money and has a credible forward development scenario. (Anything in between would be work in progress and probably not for sale.)

My money would be on the latter.

 

(Disappointingly, neither Blackstone nor potential buyers have asked my advice on the matter)

 

 

 

Most of Leica's financials are public. They have done well over the last few years for a medium sized company, particular because of the shifting dynamic of various systems. 

 

For instance, the Q sold quite quite well for a compact (not so compact but non-ILS-system) and then the M10 is doing quite well although not quite as available as the M240 yet. The SL did well for awhile, and the S just kind of maintains a particular group of people. The TL faltered, so they made an update, etc. The Panasonic varieties are slowly being ignored, and the X series is quietly being replaced by the success of the Q.

 

Right now, Leica could make it with the Q, SL, and M updates perpetually for a few years and with a solid S 008 upgrade that would fix the mechanical issues of the S legacy lenses and maybe make some SL-like updates to newer glass in a mirrorless or analog S body (maybe a choice, or firmware updates to the S 007, make the remaining an SE etc).

 

This is obviously Blackstone trying to turn a profit on their investment and pass it on. I think a Chinese investor will jump in. My 2¢

[wlaidlaw]

I am not sure if a Chinese investor would be a good fit with the philosophy and long term views that it is obvious that Dr. Kaufmann possesses, much to the benefit of us Leica enthusiasts. 

 

Wilson

[jaapv]

A thousand medals, but too modest to reveal the greatest accolade of your starry career, the Baron Munchausen Award for Lifetime Achievement in Fantasy Photography.

Especially as this whole Olympiad is non-existent, at least, in Google

[bilbrown]

I am not sure if a Chinese investor would be a good fit with the philosophy and long term views that it is obvious that Dr. Kaufmann possesses, much to the benefit of us Leica enthusiasts. 

 

Wilson

 

 

 

Dr. Kaufman and his wife are spending a lot of time in China. I don't know about that.

 

With China's population at 1.379 billion (Europe by example, all of it, is only 743.1 million and the US is 323.1 million) if the Kaufman's are taking the advice of financial market leaders they may be happy to have some Chinese backer to take the company heftily into that market.

 

Also the German market constitutes 14% of the Leica bottom line and the US market only 18%. China, is the third largest economy and has the second largest number of billionaires with Germany coming in third with HALF of the billionaires of China.

 

Unless Leica beats Sony, Canon, Nikon etc and maybe even Apple (if they delve deeper into mobile technology) they won't get the very fickle US market. They need to maintain that 9%-12% profit gain and without the superiority of the US market they will need China.

Edited August 5, 2017 by bilbrown

[earleygallery]

Leica might need China, but does China need Leica?

[pico]

Leica might need China, but does China need Leica?

 

Excellent counter point. I am sure there are diversified Chinese efforts which could absorb a financial risk in Leica to turn it to its public perception advantage. That is where loss pivots about the PR maypole.

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Hallo,

Look here: Interesting Leica gear

[almoore]

A thousand medals! Sounds a lot like this...

It made me think of Muttley from the Wacky Races.